earlgreytea68 | The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Two

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chaosverse book club

The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Two

Things Continue to Progress

I admit this is another fic that isn't one of my favorites, although I'm not sure why, because there are bits of it I really like: the description of the Doctor's state of undress, which I find exta-sexy because of how dressed up he normally is; the first mention of the Doctor's propensity to keep count of their shags, which shows up in a few other fics and is finally resolved in "Whispers in Her Ear, from Across the Room"; the last line. I do also like their tone in this fic, I think they feel very much like two people who had just gotten together and were still in that honeymoon phase and couldn't believe their luck at finding each other. Not to say they ever completely take each other for granted but, even with no other cues, you can tell that this is an early story whereas a story like "Evasive Maneuvers" is a later story. At least, I think you can.

Questions for Discussion:

There should be a week-long ficathon where someone posts a fic each day about each of the shags the Doctor describes: One that was slow, one that was fast, the one with you on top, the one with the thing with your teeth and my hip, the one with the thing with my tongue and your belly button, the one where we fell off the bed, and the one just after I woke you up. This is another question for discussion that is not a question for discussion but a command.

I set up the Doctor associating cups of tea with less than respectable activities, but I never did do anything with that. Did you ever think back to this story at any of the many, many times my Doctor drinks a cup of tea?

What are your favorite bits of this paticular little fic?

A Supernatural Excursion

I love this story. It's strange, because I tend to forget about it, and I don't re-read it very often, but every time I do re-read it I'm struck by the fact that I think it is absolutely hilarious. I love the Doctor's insecurity and vulnerability in the fic when it comes to Rose, but I love the Doctor-y-ness of him, for lack of a better word, in the rest of the fic. I love the mocking salute he gives to the truck that almost runs him over, I love his no-nonsense competence when they encounter Sam and Dean outside the house and he's just like, "I don't have time for this, leave me alone," I love his mocking "Professional what?" at Dean after they kill the werewolf, which I find some kind of prediction of Sherlock being all "The police don't consult amateurs" a few years later, I love his "There's a Lord involved here, but not the Lord you're thinking." Really, I think the Doctor has some great lines in this fic. And I have to admit, this fic has one of my favorite lines of dialogue ever: "I’ve got a lupine-wavelength haemovariform who needs a tummy tuck" Hahahahaha! I have no idea why, because I'm sure I've written better lines of dialogue, but that line out of the Doctor cracks me up every time I read it. (I also like how Sam says "Doctor what?" instead of "Doctor who?" here. Just because I think an American would say it that way. I think.)

I also love this fic because it lets me engage in one of my favorite things: viewing the Doctor/Rose relationship from the vantage point of an outsider.

Questions for Discussion:

The Doctor mentions that Rose has something of the wolf about her, which is something that comes up in "Tooth & Claw" and then, frankly, seems to mostly be dropped from canon ("Bad Wolf" references aside, since those don't really have to do with the effect on Rose). Frankly, I drop the idea from the Chaosverse (other than, you know, the notable exception of "College," but I tie that to her heart's desire and not to her wolf-ness). What are your thoughts on the "something of the wolf about her"? What did the line mean in canon? What should it mean in fanfiction?

The Doctor has Rose carrying a gun in this fic. Thoughts on that? I admit I wrote it without really giving thought to the Doctor's aversion to guns. Did any of you find it noteworthy here in this fic?

Do you have any particular bits of this fic that you find hilarious the way I do?

Everywhere

Ah, a post-GitF fic. Such an infamous subgenre in the DW genre!

I admit that I think Rose could have gone either way in this fic. That this was the turning point in their fragile relationship. She forgives him--and we all know they end up happily ever after--but I think she could have walked away from him and I wouldn't have blamed her. So this was a tricky fic to write, because I had to have Rose forgive him, but I had to make sure that she didn't seem too forgiving, if that makes sense. I didn't want it to feel like she was sacrificing the strength of her character for him.

I've never really played around with the fact that the Doctor thought the relationship with Rose was a bad idea, even as he let himself get involved. I should really do something with that. Because he was clearly as wrong as he has ever been in that regard (at least, in my 'verse).

I love the way this fic ends, too. Where are they going? Everywhere. And they did. :-)

Questions for Discussion:

Do you love GitF? Do you hate GitF? Regardless of how you feel about it, how do you think this fic does dealing with GitF?

Do you buy Rose forgiving the Doctor here? Or do you think she gave in too easily?

Next Week: Like a Kid in a Candy Store, One If by Land, Two If by Sea, and Chapter 1 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space.

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First, about Things Continue to Progress: I've always seen this as a sweet, sexy little interlude between the rest of their progressions. I do love the way you describe the Doctor's state of undress, as well as Rose's reaction to it. Re-reading just now, I was thinking about how you deal with POV - I tend to pick one and stick to it like it's my job, but you manage to switch back and forth seamlessly. Hmm.

There should be a week-long ficathon where someone posts a fic each day about each of the shags the Doctor describes YES.

I will be back later! I'm especially looking forward to Everywhere. I have read this one SO many times. :)

I enjoyed this story in the re-read. What makes it interesting to me, is that I remember how I felt reading this when I first began the series. At that point, it was amazing and sexy, and hot, and all it did was inspire me to keep reading. Particularly, what stood out for me was the way each of these beginning fics (and more as I continued reading) seemed more like tidbit moments out of the Doctor and Rose’s lives, and I loved the way you captured them. I’ve never really read a story before that led up with smaller fics to the big fics (the first being “Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space” in my opinion) and then the in-betweens. And that’s a terrible way of phrasing it, because I honestly don’t view the series as the “before”, “in-between” and “after” the major stories. But the single moments - the scenes in between the play, if you will, are what makes this story so incredible to me. I love “Things Continue to Progress” not only because it’s the Doctor being wonderfully sexy with Rose, but because it allowed us, the readers, a glimpse into their lives at that one moment in time. I also love that it keeps the story going, even though it begins and ends in that one moment. I’m not sure how you managed to tell a story only using bits and pieces out of their lives, but somehow, the chronology of events tells a beautiful and progressive story without it being one novel-length consecutive fic.

I too, loved to see the Doctor in an open and unbuttoned shirt and pants. It was a rare opportunity and one that my imagination ran quite wild with. In a way, however, it did feel a bit... wrong. LOL. Sort of like the saying, “less is always more” in regards to the point if women are more sexy showing everything, or simply hinting at more when in actuality, nothing is showing at all. The Doctor has always seemed like the forbidden package - one that I enjoy reading about Rose finding out what’s underneath, as he’s so completely covered from neck to toe most of the time. However, there is a larger part of me that loves the fact that the Doctor has relaxed enough around Rose in such a short time, that he now feels comfortable enough not to button up every last button on his jacket around her, so to speak. The open shirt is such a... “guy who’s been shagged” look, what women can’t find that irresistible and sexy? There was something you said, “She was now well aware that, on occasion, the Doctor went entirely without any of his myriad layers of clothing, and did quite well without them, thank you very much,” that made my mind wonder what other times exactly on the TARDIS did the Doctor go without clothing while Rose was on board. Or did he simply button up everything for her benefit? He is 900 years old, and to some degree I would greatly assume that clothing is completely optional for his maturity and open-mindedness way of thinking. And yet, his Doctor is completely covered at all times. Except when shagging Rose Tyler, of course. I just keep imagining pre-shagging-Rose-Tyler Doctor, and picturing him working under the console or reading in his library while Rose slept, completely naked and carefree. LOL.

I don’t know. I love the fact that the Doctor is less-dressed and totally comfortable with it around Rose, but it did make me wonder how comfortable he was undressed compared to how he feels 99% of the other time. Is it only around Rose? I can only imagine Rose and the Doctor going to visit Jackie and him walking around in pants without a shirt. I can’t decide if Jackie would simply do a double take, or if she’s be drooling, or if she’s simply take it for granted. I can’t imagine the third, as I think everyone associates the Doctor with his suit and to see him dressed otherwise would be a bit of a shock. Just like it would be strange to see Ten wearing jeans and a t-shirt. You know? But for this moment in time, I did enjoy the opportunity to see the Doctor’s naked chest, because in my mind, he’s gorgeous shirtless. And possibly, more tan than David Tennant could ever be. *smirks*

I'll admit that these are some of the stories I don't read as often, not really sure why. I do -love- "Everywhere" for the reasons you stated: it's the crucial moment in their relationship. Going back to the question from last week, I think I've always felt that the relationship between Ten and Rose began after TGiTF, an episode that I really liked. I think Reinette was the Doctor's last effort to convince himself that he wasn't in love with Rose, but then look who he fell for: a smart, independent, brave Blonde. I think he was really hoping Rose would just leave and he made himself believe that he could deal with it, but when the time came, he just couldn't, and I think you really capture all of this very well in the story. :)

"Things Continue to Progress"

-Hmm, I can't say I ever thought back on this during all of those tea drinking scenes, though I guess kind of always thought the punchline of this piece was that the Doctor was so distracted by sex and Rose that he didn't notice he'd put spoiled milk in his tea? Though in hindsight perhaps there should be a follow-up to this with tea at Jackie's, lol.

-This is definitely a very sexy look for the Doctor (possibly only improved with brainy-specs).

"A Supernatural Excursion"

I think this is actually the first time I've read through this fic properly. I've never seen Supernatural, and I think that put me off a bit. I think I read up until they actually start hunting the, uh, lupine-wavelength haemovariform/werewolf. But I'm glad I've read it now :)

-Hmmm, in cannon I guess I always assumed they were talking about Rose as Bad Wolf. Despite that the Doctor "took it out of her," I always got the impression that the effects were long reaching. For me, Bad Wolf is a nice way to explain why the Doctor and Rose always make it out of so many close calls: she ensured that they'd always be okay during her brief stint as the Bad Wolf. The beauty of fanfiction is that it can mean whatever, though it always makes me think of TheLastWord's Something!verse (on whofic, I feel like her lj name is different). I feel like she basically molded that series around that line.

-Hmm, I think I dismissed her carrying a gun based on the fact that it's a crossover fic. Though now that you've pointed it out it does seem a little out of character. Especially if they're trying to get the poor thing to go with them. I'm not sure the Doctor would want it to think it was being escorted at gun-point. Perhaps some other type of insurance would be more in character? UV flashlight perhaps, lol? Something mostly harmless.

-Jealous Doctor is amazing in this fic. He's humorous and heartbreaking all at the same time. I think “I’m over 900 years old and a Time Lord and this is still all very new. Forgive me if sometimes I think you might want someone closer to your own age…and species.” is my favorite line in this whole fic, and the conversation that accompanies it is brilliant. You do a really nice job of capturing the different sides of the Doctor, not only in this part but the conversation about being lucky at the end too.

Things Continue to Progress

I really do love this story. The Doctor and Rose are just so charmingly sweet and in love in it and I adore the idea of them counting in shags! SO CUTE!

YES YES YES YES YES You need to run this ficathon. It would be AMAZING.

A Supernatural Excursion

I have to admit this is probably one of my least favourite chaosverse stories. That's mainly because I don't watch Supernatural though so for me reading this fic is effort. That being said, it's got some amazing dialogue and some great moments.

What are your thoughts on the "something of the wolf about her"? What did the line mean in canon? What should it mean in fanfiction?
In the series I always took that literally to mean Bad Wolf - to allude to the fact that it wasn't completely gone. Although now that' you've asked the question I kind of want to look up qualities and characteristics of wolves and see what might apply to Rose's overall personality and temperament.

Do you have any particular bits of this fic that you find hilarious the way I do?
I found the "two penises" conversations to be quite hilarious. Partly because the face I picture DT making is rather hysterical.

Everywhere

Do you love GitF? Do you hate GitF? Regardless of how you feel about it, how do you think this fic does dealing with GitF? I've always quite liked this episode. Ignoring the implications it has for the D/R relationship for just a moment, it's a beautiful episode. The story with Reinette is sad and beautiful and heartbreaking and I really quite like it. It's like a fairytale really and the way it's shot is just beautiful in my option. I love what you do with it here though: This is a huge turning point for them and I love that you deal with the implications head on. I always thought he got off too easy at the end of that episode.

Do you buy Rose forgiving the Doctor here? Or do you think she gave in too easily? Yes absolutely. He's so sincere, how can she not? Also, I think once she spoke her mind and once she was sure he'd heard her say it, she would be able to let it go, especially since he truly listened to her and then was honest with her about his feelings. It's the honesty here that is SO important I think. Anyway, I do love this story. It's beautifully written and very well done!

Did you ever think back to this story at any of the many, many times my Doctor drinks a cup of tea?

Nope. Honestly, it never occurred to me. The ganache later definitely had staying power when being referenced, but the tea was a bit... weak. (If you'll pardon the pun.) I read so many fics that I tend not to associate multiple fics together without there being a direct reference in the story.

What are your favorite bits of this particular little fic?

Rose's teasing and the Doctor's reaction. Definitely, definitely! '“A cuppa?” she suggested, innocently, and then leaned forward again. “Oh, yes,” he hissed out, his hand fisting in her hair.' I love his reaction to that situation. She could've said absolutely anything and he would've agreed.

I also like how Sam says "Doctor what?" instead of "Doctor who?"

I had to go back and check just to make sure, but Rose said the same thing in the first episode. I remember thinking that it made her special in a show called 'Doctor Who' not to fall into the expected response.
I felt so bad for the Doctor right after Sam and Dean shot the werewolf. He almost got another day where everybody lived, almost.

What are your thoughts on the "something of the wolf about her"? What did the line mean in canon? What should it mean in fanfiction?

I always liked to think that there was still a bit of vortex in Rose and that was being referenced, but there was never really anything to prove that until season 4. Even then it was just a title, there was never any physical proof that Rose retained anything, which really is a shame. There was so much potential there, though I guess the potential remains. At any point they could bring Rose back for any reason, do just about anything to her, and blame it on the Bad Wolf. Maybe if Billie Piper had stayed on for more seasons they would have played with all of that a bit more. *sigh* But that's what fanfics are for, right? All of the could've, should've, would've's. It's a beautiful thing! ^_^

The Doctor has Rose carrying a gun in this fic. Thoughts on that? I admit I wrote it without really giving thought to the Doctor's aversion to guns. Did any of you find it noteworthy here in this fic?

The Doctor's been known to use violence, I think that's why he hates to carry weapons, they would be too much of a temptation to use. I would equal Rose with the gun full of silver bullets with the Doctor's anti-plastic in 'Rose.' Of course, he “wasn't gonna use it.”

Do you have any particular bits of this fic that you find hilarious the way I do?

-Besides the fact that it's a Supernatural crossover? How about ALL OF IT!!
-“The Doctor felt his dimples quirk. Because he was determined to be annoyed, and not find Rose adorable.” She's so got him wrapped around her little finger, hehehe.
-I love how Dean calls Rose 'Rosie,' it's just so Jack and you can never, never have too much Jack. Now there's an idea, we need more crossover fics where Dean meets Jack. I picture a little something like this: http://nimloth87.deviantart.com/gallery/26559361#/d2dt45f
-“I told him you had two penises.” I can't help it, I will always think of Jackie Tyler in TCI.
-“Welllllll, you were…fluttering your eyelashes about, and you know how that…butters parsnips.” Extra,extra credit for the Doctor quoting David Tennant.

Do you love GitF? Do you hate GitF? Regardless of how you feel about it, how do you think this fic does dealing with GitF?

The actual episode was never really one of my favorites. The fics that center around it, on the other hand, are usually ones that I love reading, regardless of how they end. I think that point in the series is truly a turning point for the Doctor and Rose in their relationship, even in cannon. After that episode they seem much closer and the Doctor seems to, if not acknowledge their closeness, at least stop pulling away from her. I think you do a wonderful job reflecting that in your fic. “He did not let himself betray anything. At least, he hoped he didn’t. He kept fiddling. “Drive you away from where?” he asked.” I could see the 11th Doctor saying something like this to Amy. Trying to pretend ignorance to get out of an emotional confrontation. Too bad for him that Rose knows him just a bit better.

Do you buy Rose forgiving the Doctor here? Or do you think she gave in too easily?

I love how you write angry Rose, it's beautiful. The Oncoming Storm's got nothing on a Rose pissed at the Doctor. “I’m walking away,” she said, without looking back at him. And when she closed the door behind her, it was with a soft and gentle click. That, right there... it's just... perfect. It just made me want to stand up and applaud her.

I don't think she forgave him too quickly, I think it was just right. Rose is all heart, she always has been, and when you hear a line like “I am all alone. In the entire universe, I am all alone. All I have is you. Please. Don’t go.” I don't think anyone could resist that. It just screams of puppy-dog eyes and I have the overwhelming urge to hug something.

I really think that Rose and the Doctor needed something like GitF as a catalyst for the next step in their relationship. I think without a shove they would have floundered in the safety they had together without actually talking about the issues that each of them have. The Doctor and his fear of commitment, fear of watching Rose grow old, of losing her, of having to go on alone with that pain. Rose's feelings of inadequacy, of being less than worthy of being by his side, always afraid that one day he'd realize that she's not what he wants and send her home.

It's all so very them . Before they were best friends that shagged and loved each other, but never said it. They were in an unnamed kind of relationship. It makes sense that when they crossed into actually being a couple it would be with a bang. Like how their first time together was during an earthquake, this just fits their pattern.

About Everywhere...

I LOVE this fic. I may have read this one more times than anything else you've written. It just WORKS. I totally buy Ten being terrified and desperate not to lose Rose, even as he's making such stupid decisions. I am not a GitF fan, but this fic solves that for me.

You are so right when you say their relationship is fragile here - it so could have gone either way. And I think it speaks to the strength of Rose's character that she's willing to risk it all by confronting him instead of sweeping it under the rug the way he's trying to do. I absolutely don't think she gave in too easily. She risked losing him entirely by giving him an ultimatum and bringing all this out into the open, and their relationship is so much stronger for it. It also breaks my heart a little that he still can't say "I love you" and instead plays the "you're all I have card". That's how I read it, anyway.

I would love to see you give some more exploration to the Doctor initially having massive doubts about this relationship, now that you mention it!

Thank you for this fic.

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Tings Continue to Progress

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"Things Continue to Progress" & "A Supernatural Excursion"

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Things Continue to Progress

A Supernatural Excursion

Everywhere

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