earlgreytea68 | The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Four

Entry tags:

chaosverse book club

The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Four

Chapter Two of Chaos Theory

This chapter is mainly about Jackie. I don't think I ever intended to spend as much time on Jackie as I've ended up doing in this 'verse, but I'm absolutely fascinated by her relationship with her daughter and the strange family her daughter chose.

You know, I forgot that there's an implication in this chapter that Rose's ability to have Time Lord children might be unusual. I have never reached the point, in my thinking about Brem, where he wants to have children, but I wonder if that's ever an issue for these future generations. Hmm.

Questions for Discussion:

I make lots of references to the Doctor and Jackie sharing terrible taste in television. What do you like to imagine they watch together?

Chapter Three of Chaos Theory

The TARDIS is nurturing. What's interesting about this is that, in "College," we learn that the around this time the Doctor must have taken some coral from the TARDIS to start growing Brem's TARDIS. I wonder if he's already done it here, and that the TARDIS is actually nurturing the baby TARDIS and it's manifesting this way. I like to think that's why.

It's always bothered me a little bit that the Doctor doesn't realize immediately that he can sense the baby. One has to imagine his head is pretty cavernous with all the Time Lords gone, and he feels a tickle in the back of his mind, and, by his own words, he doesn't pay attention to it. I find that stretches credulity a bit.

You know, I always write the TARDIS as being very fond of Rose, but I think in my head that's not because of Rose's Bad-Wolf-ness but because the TARDIS loves the Doctor and Rose makes the Doctor happy. I guess either explanation could work, though.

Rose worries that the baby will replace her, which clearly doesn't happen. But I find it interesting that the opposite almost comes to pass: The Doctor and Brem turn out to be so much alike that, rather than being able to read each other's thoughts, they are amazingly obtuse about each other.

Questions for Discussion:

2nd2ndalto, in a recent comment, said that there's always one line in a fic that sticks with her. What's your one line from this chapter?

Chapter Four of Chaos Theory

You know, I think the Doctor never fully gets the hang of living with a non-telepathic creature like Rose. In this chapter, Rose is determined to have it out, to discuss their feelings, and the Doctor is irritated. I think at least part of the Doctor's irritation stems from the fact that, as a telepathic being, he thinks she should just be able to sense how he feels, and he'll sense how she feels, and then they never have to have a messy discussion about it. I think Time Lords, on the whole, dislike messy emotional confrontation, for this reason.

Rose's doubt in this chapter about her utility as a mother to Gallifreyans rings true to me. But it's especially heartbreaking in light of the fact that we eventually get to see her children trying to make a life without their mother, and we know what a complete disaster it is without her.

Ah, the pendant. Sometimes I remember Rose's pendant, most of the time I forget about it completely. I'm the worst at continuity.

This is a sex scene I actually really like, because I think it's fun.

Questions for Discussion:

Ah, there's been much speculation. What are those thoughts the Doctor leaves out? What did you always imagine them to be?

Next Week: Chapters 5, 6, and 7 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I am now picturing the Doctor and Jackie enjoying Eurovision together.

And this is the most memorable line to me from Chapter 3:

what would they need with a yellow-and-pink girl whose existence was just a blink of an eye?

OMG EUROVISION FIC. YES. WHY HAVE I NEVER DOWNLOADED EUROVISION SONGS? MUST DO THAT.

Awwww, such a bittersweet line!

OMG EUROVISION FIC.

OMG YOU MUST WRITE THIS NOW! :)

Chapter 2
I think it is so true that Jackie's first response to Rose announcing that she is pregnant is "With whose baby?" Jackie is the one character who always reminds us that, as much as we love the Doctor, he is an alien. And the fact that she is so concerned about Rose is just spot-on.

Oh! And the first mention of Complicated Gallifreyan Babies! GAWWWWW.

I make lots of references to the Doctor and Jackie sharing terrible taste in television. What do you like to imagine they watch together?
I think the Doctor likes shows that show off human abilities- like "Britain's Got Talent" or cooking competitions and things like that. Things where he can go "AH! That's brilliant!" and just be all amused with humanity. I also have the feeling that he and Jackie like watching soap operas, and when Rose teases him about it he always claims that it's just rubbish, but really he knows EVERY SINGLE character and storyline. :D

Chapter 3

I just feel so bad for Rose in this chapter!! But I love that the TARDIS is 'nurturing', and I also like the idea that it is partly because the Doctor has started growing another TARDIS.

2nd2ndalto, in a recent comment, said that there's always one line in a fic that sticks with her. What's your one line from this chapter?
It's actually three lines:
The Doctor had never sought out trouble. He never backed down from it, of course, but he never actually sought it. Was it his fault if the trouble always found him, everywhere he went? This is just so true- and, as we learned in "The Doctor's Wife", canon! The TARDIS always takes him where he is needed.

Chapter 4

Ah, there's been much speculation. What are those thoughts the Doctor leaves out? What did you always imagine them to be?
I'm thinking something along the lines of "Rose is the most amazing creature in the universe" and "I need to show Rose that I think she's the most amazing creature in the universe."

Well, at least until I get to the end and the Doctor says he's saving them for later. Then if I think too much about it my brain continues melting into the giant puddle of goo that your GUH-worthy chapter caused!!

"Jackie is the one character who always reminds us that, as much as we love the Doctor, he is an alien."

That's a good point. Everyone else in the Doctor's life sees him as something else first (lover, husband, father). It takes Jackie a very, very long time to stop seeing "ALIEN" flashing over his head every time he talks. It makes sense, really: She's not in love with him, and he's not her dad, so there's not that sense of acceptance that Rose and the kids have. She has to really work through it.

Awww, I bet the Doctor does think reality shows show off the best of humanity! He's so sweet! (And the Doctor totally loves soap operas. I bet he watches alien ones, too. He probably brings them over to watch with Jackie.)

I was so happy when "The Doctor's Wife" confirmed that!!

Awwww, I love your thoughts! They're very sweet!

I love this chapter. I especially love Jackie’s reaction to Rose telling her that she’s pregnant. The line about, “she didn’t have the heart to point out any of the millions of problems she saw with this situation, but returned the smile and said, “good.” It is the epitome sentence of what makes Jackie a fantastic mom. Because the right thing to do is simply hold your pregnant daughter and decide to do what you can to help her, instead of berating and arguing and getting mad - because in a situation like this, especially one in which Rose isn’t crying and unhappy about being pregnant, Jackie could have handled the situation completely inappropriately. But she didn’t, and I love her for it.

I think my favorite line of this chapter has to be the Doctor’s line of, “I’m going to learn.” I adore that the Doctor admits to not knowing anything about birthing babies, except that it’s happened in the past. I’m not sure what it is about how he explains his DNA to Jackie, comparing Rose’s DNA to his own triple helix DNA - I just love how you explained it. I could see it, picture it in my mind, and it makes perfect sense. I’m not sure how your creative mind comes up with some of this stuff, but it’s brilliant and I’m completely sucked in.

To balance that, I can’t believe the amount of scientific explanation vs. emotional feeling that comes out of this chapter. You balance them perfectly, and there isn’t one moment when I was reading that I wanted to skim because it was too “scientific explained” or too “melodramatic.” I really loved every single line to the fullest.

I think my only complaint about this chapter was how quick and easy Rose seemed to accept having a complicated Gallifreyan baby, in how that wouldn’t be easy for her. I know that when I first found out I was pregnant - 9 months seemed FOREVER away, and I can only imagine her dismay at having to wait a year or so - and the Doctor never quite says how long. Heck, it could have been 14 or 15 months! Or 22, like elephants. Which would have just been cruel. LOL.

I think Rose very much wants this baby and is obviously willing to do anything for the baby, and she’s the perfect first-time pregnant mom-to-be, but I think it would have been more realistic for us if we’d gotten to see her moan and groan just a little bit about having to change everything for the eternity that she’s pregnant. I mean, she obviously can’t do the dangerous running anymore (thank you TARDIS), and there were a lot of stressful moments in saving the world a lot. I just think both she and the Doctor would miss it some, and voice it every so often. I mean - don’t these people ever get in a tiff? LOL.

The Doctor does go off to save the world leaving her in the TARDIS in future chapters, but I can imagine some unhappiness on her end during those long months that she had to stay and wait inside, and worry for him. You know?

But she handles everything with grace and does so in a way that puts everyone else to shame. LOL. She’s kind of perfect in how she handles the pregnancies, and I do love that about her.

I do love how Jackie perceives how the Doctor and Rose’s relationship came to be. I guess there never was a sit-down meal where they informed her that they were an official couple. LOL. But over time, she had simply come to accept that he was her son-in-law. I simply adore that. Your line of, “it became natural for a spaceship to park in her parlour and for her daughter to tumble out hand-in-hand with a man who claimed to be 9-- years old and yet looked like he’d barely seen 35 and acted like he’d just reached puberty.” I LOVE that. It’s hilariously accurate. I can even imagine Brem having similar lines in his journal in describing his father.

I personally adore the Jackie/Doctor relationship as much as I love the Jackie/Rose relationship, but in completely different ways.

I love that the Doctor has terrible taste in television, like Jackie, and that they probably have a lot of favorite shows in common. I can imagine both of them watching infomercials, and calling in at ridiculous times to buy ridiculous items. The Doctor probably loving those items that can do 12 different things and still just be a hairdryer, or whatnot - so he can take them apart and make them sonic or something ridiculous. Or him encouraging Jackie to buy things she doesn’t need, by convincing her that she does need it, only to steal the object once it arrives and take it apart much to her dismay. LOL.

Heh. They do fight sometimes, although I tend to write it less. But they fight a bit. They just also tend to make up fairly quickly. :-)

And yeah, it totally makes sense that it would be difficult for Rose to accept some aspects of the pregnancy. I think I just thought she was so focused on the happier things that she just coped with the unhappier things a bit more. And I think she was also busy fretting about other things, that precipitate her minor breakdown a bit later.

Ha! Brem and Jackie have alarmingly similar views toward the Doctor. ;-)

I adore the Jackie/Doctor relationship, too. It's why I end up writing so much of it!

Ha! Yes, the Doctor totally loves tearing infomercial products apart. I really think he thinks humans are just so delightful, with their funny little inventions!

I wanted Jackie to be a great mum here. Because Rose turns out to be a great mum, and she got that from her mum. And Rose is happy. Rose is beaming with happiness. I couldn't imagine Jackie looking at her delighted daughter and having the ability to poke holes in that happiness, you know?

I'm so glad that the DNA thing makes sense to you! I'm terrible at science, and I'm so very happy that this works! And also that you felt the balance was right, because that can be difficult to do, especially in a chapter that needs to have a lot of exposition, like this chapter.

I think, for Rose, she wants the baby not only for herself but because she thinks it's the ultimate gift she can give the Doctor. So there's a way in which I think she literally hasn't thought about the inconvenience of it. I don't think she'd ever thought she'd be able to do this at all, so it's just amazing to her. It doesn't get annoying until later. ;-)

I never put together the theory of the TARDIS nurturing due to the Doctor setting aside the coral and starting to grow Brem’s TARDIS. I always wondered if he just did Brem’s here, or if he actually had done all three, hoping for future children? The coral all did seem to grow at the same time when the kids grew. There really isn’t a story that talks about Athena or Fortuna’s jealousy watching Brem leave in his own TARDIS. But if they did have to wait that additional 2-4 years, I can definitely see that being slightly aggravating for them. LOL.

I actually liked that the Doctor doesn’t realize immediately that he can sense the baby. I would think something was greatly amiss as the baby grew - late in the pregnancy, but mostly I would be concerned for when the baby took his first breath outside of the womb, if the Doctor didn’t realize it then. The baby is so small here, barely even a baby at this point, and I sort of justified it in my mind as the Doctor has such great psychic abilities, that he probably feels all sorts of low-level telepathy all the time, from different parts of space or from different planets... nothing as powerful or equal feeling to what he would feel with another Time Lord, but perhaps just... something - you know?

And Brem being only a few months in the womb (or less considering he’s developing SO slowly) wouldn’t have that great of a Time Lord psychic mind yet. I would like to think that as soon as the baby is born, that the Time Lord consciousness would be overwhelming in presence. But I actually loved the concept that the Doctor didn’t recognize it, or even think about it, because it gave way to the entire story of Rose not being able to soothe the baby, which later allowed her to express her fears towards having a Time Lord baby.

I always thought that the TARDIS loved any inhabitant that loved and respected her. I always saw Rose as being kind and generous to the TARDIS, and caring about her as much as she loved her, and because of that - the TARDIS loved and respected and cared for Rose in return. I always saw the relationship that Rose had with the TARDIS as something special and unique between she and Rose, that had nothing to do really with the Doctor. Just like the Doctor and the TARDIS have a special relationship. I never really saw it as being caused by BAD WOLF, or even just because the TARDIS cared for the Doctor, and as such, cares about Rose because he does. I like to think of the TARDIS sort of like the star whale. So old and so compassionate, and all alone in the world. So all she has is the people who travel within her. So why wouldn’t she try to love and take care of them, individually?

I do love this chapter all the more after reading the series. Not that I didn’t love LOVE it before. Because I did. But I love the fact that Rose is terrified that the baby will replace her, when in actuality, you are right - Brem is SO like the Doctor that they both just need Rose desperately. I wonder, later on in the story, if Athena and Fortuna just accept it more that their mom is human and will die in a blink of their lifespans... because it is always Brem that refuses to give up on her. Or is his entire motivation the fear of hearing the Doctor’s despair again - because he was actually old enough to remember the feeling of the 900 year old Time Lord utterly depressed. He talks about it later on - and so I always wondered if his motivation for wanting Rose to live, wasn’t just because she was his mother, but that his absolute refusal to accept her human lifespan was driven by his need to never feel the Doctor so sad again. And maybe that’s the reason he’s the one out of the three that continues to bring it up and make issue of it, whereas the girls just seem to go along with his lead.

Personally, this chapter is one of my all-time favorites as well, that I go back and re-read, mainly because for the first time, we get real insight into the fear that Rose is feeling. Her starting to cry as soon as she realizes that the Doctor was able to soothe the baby in a few moments after she’d been trying to for hours is just devastating. I love his unwillingness to leave her alone while she’s upset, even if he believes her line about “hormones.” I love his line to her as, “come watch me.” I’m not really sure why, but that line is so perfect for me. Obviously, Rose can never do anything BUT watch him pilot the TARDIS. It isn’t as if she helps. I just like that he verbalizes it. He doesn’t just say, come to the console room with me, or “come help me move her,” or “come keep me company.” He just says, “come watch me,” and I love the way he phrases that.

The Doctor carries Rose quite a lot, very romantically, in these very early chapters. Such a gentleman. And so strong. We don’t really get to see the super-strong Doctor all that much, and I kind of love the moments where he easily lifts pregnant Rose into his arms and carries her around the TARDIS. Heh.

I love that crying Rose doesn’t get one complaint from the Doctor about going home. Reminds me of the episode where the Doctor takes Rose to Jackie’s flat after the cyberman episode. I get the feeling that Rose didn’t even have to ask him in that episode - he just did it for her because he understood that she needed to see her mum. As oblivious as he is at times, he also is more understanding than he lets on.

I love that Jackie’s first thought after seeing that Rose is crying is that obviously, the Doctor must have done something. I do love Jackie.

I think the most heartbreaking line of this chapter is, “She had wanted to give him a baby, to give him someone who would outlast her, but she saw at that moment that the baby would replace her. He was no longer to need a silly human to drive away the loneliness. He would have this complicated Gallifreyan baby that would be just like him, and they would take care of each other, in their complicated Gallifreyan ways, and what would they need with a yellow-and-pink girl whose existence was just a blink of an eye?”

HEARTBREAKING. And I can totally see her thinking this, because who wouldn’t be? I also love the explanation as to why she’s so pro-baby. About giving the Doctor this, someone so he doesn’t ever have to be alone. Rose is so incredibly mature in some ways, and this is the perfect example of how well she understands the Doctor. She knows that her life won’t compare to the years to come with him, and she loves him so much - enough to not only accept that - but to gift him with a person, so he doesn’t have to be alone forever when she’s gone. I love Rose.

I think the Doctor likes having an audience when he's piloting the TARDIS. I think that's why he does it so dramatically. Rose is good company for him, yes, but what he likes especially is that she *watches* him, she finds him interesting. I think it's habit that he asks her to come watch him, it's the way he thinks about it.

Ha! You're right, the Doctor is always carrying Rose around places.

I think, sometimes, the Doctor really does get that Rose just needs her mum. I think the Doctor, coming from his sense of loneliness, does recognize how nice it is to have someone to come home to.

Some people were concerned that it seemed that Rose wanted the baby more for *him* than for *her.* I think she wanted the baby for both of them. She adored the baby, that's clear to me. But she also understood what he represented for her Doctor, and that made the baby even more special for her.

I didn't write this chapter thinking about the Doctor's coral-growing, but I think it could work!

The Doctor started the TARDIS when he learned of the pregnancy (or the baby, in Fortuna's case). It was Brem who figured out how to speed up their process. He did, however, take off in his own before his sisters did. They were still at university when Brem was out and therefore considered by his human mother old enough to be on his own. Rose insisted Athena and Fortuna wait for theirs. Brem took them on lots of trips in his in the meantime.

That's a good point, the Doctor probably is used to low-level telepathy from all over the place, so maybe tiny baby consciousness wouldn't stand out for him as much.

Yeah, I think you're right about how the TARDIS feels about Rose. Rose is so nice and kind, so full of compassion, that the TARDIS can't help but love her and be nice to her. It's the same reason the TARDIS absolutely adores the children and spoils them.

Brem is the most like his father, so Brem is the most obsessed with Rose's mortality, with the idea of losing the people around him. However, I think most of it is rooted in the fact that Brem is the one of the kids who can most vividly remember Rose not being there. The Doctor fell apart, and Brem remembers having to pick up the pieces, and Brem will do anything not to have to do that again, not just for himself but for his father. If Brem hadn't been through losing his mother, I think he would be much better at accepting her mortality, more the way Athena and Fortuna behave.

I love that the Doctor watches Star Wars, only to point out it’s flaws. I love Rose’s idea of having a Star Wars thesis tucked away somewhere that he’d been just itching to share with the general pop culture public. Brilliant.

I love that when the Doctor is displeased with Rose or someone he loves, he goes silent. I like that about this Doctor, because he usually can’t shut his gob, especially when he’s saving the world. But Rose says something that makes him upset, and he goes silent.

What I like most about the conversation he has with Rose about her being upset, and her need for him to ask her about it - my gosh, how many times have I had this exact conversation with my husband? Rose’s sigh of, “we’re so different” is such an understatement and you can just feel her loss as to what to do, and she knows better than to try and argue with him... I love that her simple acceptance of that makes him want to take the extra step to fix things between them and work all the harder. I always did wonder what went through his mind at that very moment - because he really does go from snapping at her in upset/anger to kissing her shoulder and apologizing. He just turns over rather quickly, and I wish I could see more into his POV at that moment.

And oh, how romantic is his speech to her here about how she captivates him. I’ve gone back and read this section over and over. Every woman needs to hear something to this effect at least once in her life. It is so incredibly romantic and just swipes me off of my feet. I ADORE this section of this chapter of ALL of the Chaosverse.

I love the mood-ring pendant. I thought it was very sweet. I do wish more reference could have been made to it as the kids grew. I would have loved to see Brem and the girls try to figure out how Rose always seemed to know when they were upset. LOL. A small fic where she would walk in while one of them was feeling vulnerable or worried or upset, and make it all better. And she, of course, would know because of the pendant, and they wouldn’t have a clue as to how she knew. I like to imagine that’s partly why Brem knows his mom is brilliant. LOL. Or if Rose set it to be on the Doctor... somehow get past his shields or something, and could be able to tell what kind of mood he’s in at a certain time. It does open the door for a lot of emotional story lines. I love that.

Did you know what the missing thought numbers were before you wrote the fic on it?

I love the idea of him being a leisurely lover, while she was inclined to be impatient, which made sex normally a battle of strong wills... how hot is that? I love it.

I do love the sex scene here. It’s hot and lovely and I just love it.

It’s weird that I now compare Brem to the Doctor in bed. I honestly don’t mean to, but they are so completely different, it seems. Perhaps it’s because Brem is new to sex while the Doctor is old hat? But the Doctor is usually the lead, the dominant in his sex adventures with Rose, while Brem seems more content to let Kate take the lead. It just makes me wonder about the Doctor’s past and his experiences that led him to be the more “leading man” in bed compared to Brem. To me, I suppose I expected the Doctor with Rose to be more laid-back and let Rose take the lead. Thankfully, you wrote the Doctor as a sex GOD and I thank you for it. LOL. But I would have understood had you written him differently. I suppose I compare Brem’s actual love life to that of the Doctor in “the natural progression of things,” where he is just honestly clueless about what Rose wants and needs - and yet, by the time they finally get around to having sex, he just ups and takes her against a wall and it is HOT. Brem is obviously a quick learner - so I’m very interested in how his second relationship goes... now that he’s got his “first time” out of the way. I wonder if he’ll lead more in bed, and be more like the Doctor.

Are you planning to continue Brem’s story with Amy? Or are you planning to start something new and take the character elsewhere?

I’ve always been curious as to why the Doctor thanks Rose in the end, so gravely. I have a feeling it’s for more than the spectacular sex they’ve just had. Was he thanking her here, for giving him a child? A future with someone? I love the end, and I would love to know your thoughts for writing it like you did.

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy this sex scene!

I don't think much about the kids having sex. ;-) However, Brem does get to be much more of a leader when it comes to relationships. He grows into it. Kate is all brand new for him, the very idea of even having a relationship is new for him. He gets better at it, and, as he gets more comfortable with his life and who he is, he definitely starts to take the reins more.

You know, putting Amy into Fortuna's story means that I'd have to go back and edit her story with Brem, it no longer makes much sense in the context of Fortuna's story. But I don't know. I don't know if Amy is the one for Brem anymore or if I'd take him in a different direction. I feel like Brem is a lot like the Doctor, in that it might take him years to find someone who means as much to him as his mother means to his father.

At the end, he's thanking her for everything: the sex, the baby, being with him, staying with him, being *her,* for the life she's given him and continues to give him and is about to give him, for how she made him happy and hopeful and excited in a way I don't think he ever thought he'd be again. He's thanking her for absolutely everything there. And I think she gets that.

You make a very good point: You know the Doctor is angry when he goes quiet. That's his Oncoming Storm-ness there.

Yeah, I stay in Rose's POV there, but I think the Doctor is thinking that he can see that she's feeling hopeless, and he doesn't *get* it, and he doesn't want to fight with her, he wants her not to feel hopeless, he wants her to be happy so he can be happy, so he gives in first. The Doctor always gives in first, he actually thinks as much in the very first paragraph.

What makes the Doctor's speech extra-romantic, to me, is that he's just telling the truth as he sees it. He's not trying to be romantic, he's just telling her what he's feeling.

Ha! I think the kids do eventually figure it out, but I've never given much thought as to how. And then, of course, as they get older they start shielding themselves. I think the Doctor, once the kids leave the TARDIS, falls into the habit of not shielding himself as much around Rose, so that her Time Lord pendant keeps picking things up.

And nope, I had no idea what the missing thoughts were. I frequently do that. I like the mystery of leaving things out. Even to me. ;-)

I love Jackie in your 'verse' and I love how supportive she is of Rose here. I also love that she's willing to ask the Doctor all those questions. It's an interesting way of having her gradually come to accept all this.

I forgot that there's an implication in this chapter that Rose's ability to have Time Lord children might be unusual. Hmmm I read that as it's unusual because very few Time Lords have or would mate with humans and because, given the complex nature of triple helix DNA, it's difficult and complicated. So not impossible, just not done very often. So I guess what I'm saying is that I read it as any human female COULD have a Time Lord child but most wouldn't. Does that make sense?

Oh I love the idea that the Doctor is already growing a TARDIS for Brem in this chapter and that's contributing to the TARDIS's nurturing nature. Although, given the Doctor's grumpiness about the nurturing at first I wonder if maybe he decided to grow Brem a TARDIS right after this instead. Like maybe after the scene where he realizes that his fretting has panicked his baby, and as part of that he realizes how much he loves the baby and also how he wants to baby to have a TARDIS of it's own one day.

You know, I always write the TARDIS as being very fond of Rose, but I think in my head that's not because of Rose's Bad-Wolf-ness but because the TARDIS loves the Doctor and Rose makes the Doctor happy. I guess either explanation could work, though. I like option B better also. I like to think too that the TARDIS has come to love Rose for being Rose just as the Doctor has. (But not just because the Doctor does).

This is the first time I've read these chapters since reading through the first time and it's interesting to me how many little things become ironic or precious or touching with the advantage of forsight. The happy moments are sometimes bittersweet (and yet even more precious) because we know they won't last forever, and it's amusing to see how very different things turn out from how Rose and the Doctor seem to expect them to turn out. Which I suppose is a lot like real life. We always have so many expectations for our futures and they seldom turn out the way we expect although often we do end up with something better and richer than we ever dreamed possible - which ultimately is what the Doctor and Rose get. I don't think either of them would believe it at this time in their life if someone came to them and told them that one day they'd have 3 very happy, healthy, Time Lord Children and they'd be together and in love and happy for HUNDREDS of years. They just wouldn't fathom it at this point. Which I think is actually kinda beautiful.

What's your one line from this chapter

I was going to pick the bit about him cuddling the baby in his mind because I thing that's just such an adorable and beautiful image, but then I came across this and it stood out to me even more:

You are never going to make it through this if you stop talking to him.

I find that line really fascinating because if you think about it, this advice could apply to Rose's whole life with the Doctor, not just Brems birth. I think one reason their relationship works so well for so many years is that Rose started learning at this point how important it is to make him talk to her even when he doesn't want to talk or doesn't think he needs to talk. It's easy to forget that they are completely different species of beings but the reality is that the Doctor does not think or function the way that humans do and Rose has to learn to communicate with him what her needs are because he's not going to ever be able to figure that out intuitively. On the other side of this, Rose also learns to listen to the Doctor so she can understand and accept where he's coming from. It also is vital information for her so she can learn what battles to pick and which ones to drop. This communication is so important because otherwise they'd never be able to make it work long term.

This is the beginning of the alliance that the Doctor and Jackie forge for Rose's sake. It begins right here.

Your reading of what the Doctor says is exactly correct, that it's unusual for humans to have Time Lord babies because humans seldom slept with Time Lords. However, the Doctor says something about how Rose has a particular DNA sequence that makes the pregnancy possible. The Doctor says it could be a common sequence, but it could also be an uncommon one, that he's not sure, so there's at least a possibility that Rose is unique.

Hmm, yes, the Doctor could also decide to create the TARDIS for Brem after this. Maybe he thinks he can distract the TARDIS into nurturing Brem's TARDIS instead of putting bows all over the bedrooms. ;-)

I don't think I even knew at this point what would lie in store for the Doctor and Rose! It's been quite an amazing journey!

Yes, you're right, Rose and the Doctor always keep their lines of communication open. When the Doctor is inclined to be sulky and silent, Rose makes him talk. And when the Doctor has no idea what's gotten into Rose, he usually makes her talk, too. Sometimes they shout at each other, but at least they're still *talking,* and that's the only way they can even begin to figure each other out and make their complicated life together work.

it's especially heartbreaking in light of the fact that we eventually get to see her children trying to make a life without their mother, and we know what a complete disaster it is without her. it's SO heartbreaking. Her children love her and need her so much, although maybe in a way they all needed to loose each other for a little bit to appreciate just how much the need each other? Or maybe that's just me trying to rationalize away the grief I know is coming eventually.

I had an interesting thought about the pendant while I was reading this - That it could be comical if when Brem was older Rose was wearing the pendant one day and the colour of it revealed his feelings for a girl or something but then I realized that was stupid because Rose wouldn't need a pendant to know that. Rose would just know. I'd love to see you use the pendant a bit more though.

As for the thoughts the Doctor left out, I think at least one of them is how much he loves Rose, because at this point it's very clear that he does, but you've established a few times that he hasn't said it yet and I feel like this is one of those times where he could have, or at least would have wanted to, but he is once again holding himself back.

I think they definitely appreciate each other in a more conscious way after they get separated, but I don't think this was ever a family who took too much for granted. I think that was the influence of the Doctor, who's lost so much that he's stopped taking things for granted.

Rose would just know, it's true. And Brem is pretty adept at shielding from the pendant what he doesn't want his mum to know (although she still just knows). However, you're right, I need to use the pendant more.

You're right, I think the Doctor probably does think a lot about how he loves Rose. I think it's not a natural word for him to use, I'm not sure it exists in Gallifreyan, but I think it's definitely true for him and he knows it.

Chapter Two
What do you like to imagine they watch together?
It would have to be reality television shows. The Doctor loves humans and human nature and Jackie loves gossip.

Chapter Three
I like to think that the TARDIS started growing little baby TARDIS's on her own and the Doctor just took credit for it. And I can understand the Doctor not recognizing the CGB in his mind right away. The little niggle in his mind started as nothing and grew gradually. It's a part of his mind that's atrophied.

What's your one line from this chapter?
I like this one: “Piles of fluffy pillows and cuddly blankets appeared on his bed, and he wrinkled his nose at them, which amused Rose, as he didn’t even sleep.”

Chapter Four
It's funny that you remarked that you're bad at continuity. When I talk about your verse, the amazing continuity is one of the points I tend to rave about. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so bonus points for the reference.

You just know the Doctor and Jackie talk celebrity gossip ALL THE TIME.

Awwww, that's an interesting idea, that the TARDIS started procreating on her own, once she knew there was a need for more TARDISes in the universe.

Thanks for the continuity compliment! I try really hard to make things connect, but sometimes it feels more like luck than planning!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Four

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Chaos Theory Chapter 2

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 2

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 2

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 2

Chaos Theory Chapter 3

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 3

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 3

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 3

Chaos Theory Chapter 4

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 4

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 4

Re: Chaos Theory Chapter 4

Chapters 2-4 Part 1

Re: Chapters 2-4 Part 1

Chapters 2-4 Part 2

Re: Chapters 2-4 Part 2

better late than never

Re: better late than never