The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Six

[earlgreytea68]

Chapter Eight of Chaos Theory

There's a sex scene in this chapter, and then there's a fade-to-black in this chapter. I admit I kind of like the fade-to-black better in this particular chapter.

It's a bit remarkable to me to go back and read about baby!Brem and see so much of adult!Brem in him. It's not like, when I originally started writing Brem, I thought I'd still be writing him as old as I've written him these days, so I didn't really stop to think what sort of adult this baby would grow into. But the independent baby who likes to be cuddled, who doesn't say much out of sheer stubbornness, whose opinions are decided and whose affections are fierce--that baby is so much the Brem I've come to know that I am astonished how fully formed he showed up in my head, from the very beginning. He is the only character I've ever written--original or fanfic-wise--who has been so very clear, so very much belonging to himself, from the first time he showed up in my head. The gimmick of Chaos Theory is the idea that it's all Brem's journal--which is not, of course, true, since it starts before his birth--but it makes sense that, in the end, he somehow won himself the naming rights over the story.

Questions for Discussion:

So, future fics about Brem and his father explore in great detail Brem's lost faith in him, Brem's inability to fully trust him the way the girls do, Brem's constant determination to be more of his equal than just his son. (I think, actually, that it might be a huge breakthrough for the two of them, that moment in "Something About Stars" when Brem tells the Time Lords that he's his father's son. I think the talk Brem has with his father after that settles a lot of the Doctor's doubts about the mistakes that he made with Brem. They certainly seem to have an easier relationship after that, and Brem is not afraid to let his father take the lead in "How Fortuna Saved the Universe." But I'm getting ahead of myself.) Anyway, I never really thought about it before, but I wonder if a little of Brem's wariness with his father started way back here. I wonder if Brem started to harden a little bit right here, until the little boy who did what he had to and held the Vortex open. Thoughts?

Chapter Nine of Chaos Theory

Here, in this chapter, is a long paragraph about Brem's hero worship of his father...and how he tries to hide it from his father. I find the fact that I wrote that fascinating. What is it about a year-old baby that would cause him to hide the fact that he adores his father, to pretend indifference and even annoyance? I think partly it might be the suffocating telepathic nature of their relationship at this point, I think Brem might be looking for some air. But I wonder if it isn't one of Brem's most Doctor-y traits in the end, this caution when it comes to his emotions, this terror at the imminent heartbreak that could follow. Sometimes I think Brem might actually feel more than the girls do, in a deeper way than the girls do. It is difficult to imagine Brem being the one born alone, instead of Fortuna, and recovering from that the way Fortuna has. Brem is the only child I still can't envision falling helplessly in love, and I think it's because it will be crashing for him when it happens. He may need nine hundred years to brace himself for it, the way his father did.

And the Doctor is harsh to Brem in this chapter, over the new baby thing. I think it's understandable--I think he overreacts, not able to put himself in the shoes of his very happy child, instead of the shoes of the lonely Time Lord that he remembers being--but it makes me wince as I read it. If the Doctor had any idea what a perfect big brother Brem would turn out to be...

What I love best is Rose's insight into both of them. Rose is the one who sees immediately that Brem and the Doctor are so incredibly alike that they may always be a little bit at odds with each other. And she sees that this early on.

Brem comes around to Athena when he realizes that Athena is basically a companion. He is so much like his father it's absurd.

Questions for Discussion:

I think Brem as a baby is pretty much a smaller version of Brem as an adult but Athena as a baby seems different to me than she is as an adult. Thoughts on that?

Chapter Ten of Chaos Theory

Ah, one of the rare Chaosverse fights occurs this chapter. I actually really love to write arguments, I don't know why I don't do it more often! And I admit I am particularly proud of this argument, because I think it's a very real one, one that starts small and simmers and simmers and is born out of the completely different worldviews of Rose and the Doctor, which seldom come into play but flummox both of them when they do disagree this strongly. It's interesting that it's a fight they never really stop having, because it's the same discussion that opens "College": Brem shoudl go to school and make friends and develop social skills.

Much is made in this chapter of the fact that they've never encountered Weeping Angels. Hmm...

In fixing the Doctor's loneliness, Rose inadvertently makes a lonely life for herself. And I'm not sure it gets better for her, in the huge amount of time that stretches in front of her. They have each other, and a family that keeps growing, and it helps, of course. But Rose has chosen a life where she can never really have friends, and I think the first dawning realization of that happens here. They are better at trying to have friends in the future, because they really both need such things, but a TARDIS life is an essentially lonely life, in the end. It can't really be anything but.

I have no questions for discussion on this chapter! So, questions for me?

Next week: Chapters 11, 12, and 13 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space

Comments

Chapter 8 part 2

[doctorwhorecs.livejournal.com]

I love that baby Brem doesn’t babble, while I think adult Brem can babble with the best of them.

I love that we get to first see the planet Thhhhhhhhhhhhhmyr, but with no mention of any fudge. :(

I wish I had a TARDIS babysitter. SO much.

Why did you settle on 3 children in the end? I think it’s the perfect number, but I’m curious... why not more, in the end?

Discussion Question:

I think some of Brem’s weariness of his Dad had to start here, watching his Dad up and leave from time to time to save the universe, where he’s left at home. Perhaps the Doctor not realizing certain things, like cutting Brem off from his mind accidentally, made Brem more aware that his father makes mistakes at a very early age? I would like to think at least until the incident at 4, Brem was relatively happy and was enraptured by his father. I think Brem easily sees all of the Doctor’s faults, very easily. But I think what is amazing about Brem’s journey, is that from the age of 4 where the Doctor lets him down SO much, Brem’s journey is about finding his father in the man that is the Doctor again, and gaining faith in him as a person, accepting him with faults instead of seeing him as only his faults. I think it takes Brem a long time to understand how much his father tries and how much he loves, and to accept that that is a good thing, and that yes, the Doctor makes mistakes - huge ones that can’t be fixed and patched together with an “I’m sorry.” But I never wanted to believe that the only reason Brem forgives the Doctor in the end, is because the Doctor needs him to so desperately. That he needs Brem in his life, and so Brem will be there for him.

Yes, he makes a choice, then and there, to be a Time Lord, and to continue that life with his father. But, I have to believe that it’s more than that. It’s for Brem, too. Because the Doctor is good, and does try, and that’s what is important, and Brem has seen that and understands the importance of what being a Time Lord means to the universe.

I think the thing that happened at 4 was only so horrible because Brem was FOUR. At some point in Brem’s life, he would have to make a choice and a parallel universe would have been created because there is always the “what if” in any choice that is made. And I think that is what the entire upset was about. The uncertainty that the choice Brem made might have been the wrong one. And that he had to make that choice at 4, when he wasn’t an adult to weigh the odds, and he was being swayed by his father and was forced into making a choice at such a young age... it was just too early. But it still would have happened eventually.

Chapter 8 part 3

[doctorwhorecs.livejournal.com]

My question is this: Did Brem’s problems stem from the fact that he was only 4 when making this decision, or is this something that each of the children went through, or would have gone through at some point in their lives... At the moment where they change the course of the universe to solve a problem. At whatever point that is in each of their lives, do each of them go through a period of uncertainty and horror at wondering if they made the right choice.

Is this something they have to live with, or does it happen so often, that the guilt of conscious of living with these decisions simply become a way of life? Or is being a Time Lord somehow synonymous with being able to handle these decisions than mere mortals?

Is part of the reason the Doctor lives with such a sense of guilt and remorse the fact that he does weigh his options too close to heart(s) and as such, is constantly at unease with the choices he makes due to the “what ifs?”

But I can’t believe that, in the end. I think the Doctor always chooses right. It may not be the easiest, but it will always be the best. And if he feels guilt, then maybe he does - but I think his choices and decisions are always on the straight and narrow. I really do. And I think Brem made the right choice, too.

I think it just took Brem some time to be able to say that out loud, and to believe it. But I think he did think he made the right choice. I think he simply didn’t want to have had to make the choice at all in the first place. But had the choice not been his, I think the choice to save Rose and Fortuna would still have been the right one.

Re: Chapter 8 part 3

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I think they all second-guess themselves, and I think they all experience guilt. I think it was worse for Brem because he was *so* young. He didn't know himself well enough to deal with the repercussions, to move on. He didn't know the universe well enough to evaluate his decision. And he had developed no real ability to trust himself. I think Time Lords are better able to live with the decisions they have to make, because they're used to the idea of having to make them, but I think it's never really easy for them. As I think the Doctor's experience shows. As you say, he is constantly ill at ease with many of his decisions, I think.

Brem made the right choice, and the Doctor usually does, too. But they see all the possibilities of all the timelines not chosen, and I think they're haunted by it.

Re: Chapter 8 part 2

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Ha! Adult Brem babbles because he was saving it up. :-)

Well, it's the planet of the sweets, so it does have fudge, it's just that it's really only Matt who's a special fan of the fudge.

You know, the idea of the TARDIS baby-sitter was kind of a cop-out, but I needed the ability to give the Doctor and Rose alone time, and it's not like they can get a real baby-sitter all that easily. But I think it works out and makes sense!

I am one of three children, and I've always thought it's the perfect number, so it's what I gave the Doctor and Rose. Also, I had three names that I wanted to use. ;-)

You're very right, Brem's entire journey is a journey toward restoring his faith in his father, this time with his eyes wide open and full acknowledgment of his father's limitations. But he really does reach that point. He doesn't forgive the Doctor because he thinks the Doctor needs him. In a way, he forgives the Doctor because *he* needs *the Doctor.* He adores his father, and he eventually is able to acknowledge that. And, more importantly, he *respects* his father, and that makes all the difference for him.

And yeah, Brem would eventually have had to face something like he faced at the age of four. He was just too young for it, he was ill-equipped to face it. He just wanted his father to fix the world for him, and his father couldn't, his father needed Brem to do it, and it was a rude awakening for Brem.