"Kill the Moon" -- Thoughts

[earlgreytea68]

• I didn't write up anything for last week's episode because it turned out I hated it. I didn't think I hated it when I was watching it, I was just kind of like meh. But then I was talking to friends about it and I realized I hated the Doctor in it and I hated Clara in it and I haaaaaated Danny in it, so yeah, I just hated it and decided not to write up any thoughts.


• I liked this episode much, much, much better. Partly because I think it has a terribly clever plot idea, the moon being an egg, and I like the way they executed it for the most part. Partly because I was super-fond of all the secondary characters here (loved Lundvik, loved her mourning the rest of her crew, loved her calling the Doctor a prat). And partly because I only had to put up with Danny for a very little period of time. Because it turns out that I really hate Danny.


• I loved everything about Courtney. I want Courtney always hanging out on the TARDIS. We need a kid on the TARDIS. I loved her using the psychic paper as a fake ID, because OF COURSE SHE WOULD. And I loved that the Doctor thought she was using the fake ID to get into museums. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I loved all the Courtney/Doctor interaction, I thought they were hilarious together. And when Courtney gets shut in the TARDIS to stay safe and is like, "Do you have any games?" and the Doctor is like, "Don't be stupid," but you just know he has a ton of awesome video games that he's hiding in there, okay? AND A SWIMMING POOL. I wish Courtney had gone exploring, I'd love to have some time to hang out in the TARDIS.


• I still don't know what to think about this Doctor. I like that he is so, so, so exquisitely alien. "What is Courtney?" he asks Clara, totally bewildered. "Are you 35?" he asks Courtney, clearly thinking he's right. But the thing is...he's just mean a lot of the time. I keep waiting for him not to be mean, but he's pretty relentlessly mean. I went to a lecture this week on Doctor Who and religion (it was pretty unremarkable; we all have much deeper thoughts in our initial episode reactions) and they showed some clips from Ten and Eleven and they were both so...*lovely.* They did crazy, crazy, crazy things but there was always some inspirational speech about the universe. The only thing I can assume is that this Doctor is clinically depressed or something? I just don't get *why.* But he seems to have lost all delight, all sense of fun. He's mopey and snappish and just...not fun. I miss when he was fun.


• And I miss when he liked humans. You know how he gave that speech in the very first episode about how everything looks huge when you're down there on Earth? How did we go from that to him seeing nothing special about Courtney and not even being able to lie about it? I kind of get into how we got from *every other Doctor* to this. I mean, I assume that this is part of "this Doctor is different from the other Doctors, he's jaded and cynical." But it makes that speech in the first episode jarring. I feel like they just threw that in there so we'd stick around longer.


• I did like Courtney telling the Doctor that he'd kicked a hole in the side of her life, because we've seen that before, that the Doctor is like a bull in the china shop of everyone's life; he kind of barrels through without realizing all the damage he's causing. He's always been that way, so at least that made sense to me.


• Anyway, I assume that they know this Doctor's pretty unlikeable, because Clara's meltdown at the Doctor was just perfection. I've always been fond of Clara, and I felt like Jenna Coleman rocked that scene. I love that she let him have it, because he deserved it. He has, since his regeneration, done precious little to earn her continued trust. I think he doesn't see it that way, but I got why she would definitely be at the end of her rope with him. It was lovely, her accusations about how poorly he treated her when he was supposed to be her friend. And I thought the Doctor did look surprised by all of this, like he didn't realize she had any reason to be upset, and I guess I'm glad that he's not actually trying to be...vindicitive and vicious and mean. And I assume that they're going to build the Doctor back up, get him back to the Doctor we know? I assume? Because it seems odd to me to think that the Doctor is suddenly the villain in this show? Like, he can't possibly be. Right?


• So I liked a lot of the plot of this episode. I liked the central idea, I liked the creepiness of the things being germs. I liked the idea that we stopped caring about space until there was this turning point. I liked introducing again the idea that there are things the Doctor doesn't know, places where he can't interfere. When he brought up the Hitler point, I was nodding along with him. I actually even liked the Doctor saying he needed to leave the choice up to humanity. And then...Then he didn't leave it up to humanity? He just...freaked everyone out and then swooped in later? What the hell, Doctor? No wonder Clara was furious.


• And the worst thing was that Clara wanted to leave and the Doctor wouldn't let her, but that made no sense, because why should Clara, from an earlier time when humanity wasn't struggling for life, get to interfere with the choices of this current beleaguered humanity trying to make a last-ditch effort at survival? Involving Clara in the first place was in itself interference with the whole decision. Which I get the Doctor allowed because he wanted Clara's viewpoint to save the moon, but why didn't the Doctor just stay and do that himself? Or, if he wanted Clara to represent that viewpoint as another part of humanity, was it necessary to freak her out and cut it *that* close? Maybe the issue the Doctor has unwavering faith in Clara, but he does a terrible job of communicating that?


• The other thing I didn't get was: one innocent life vs. all of humanity. I don't know, maybe I'm a terrible person, but that doesn't even seem like a choice they should ever have been debating. Like, Clara asks the planet, "Hey, guys, we can let this one thing live and kill all of ourselves or we can kill that one thing and we all get to live, what do you think?" I know that it was more complex than that: they weren't sure they'd all die if they didn't kill the thing, etc. But yeah, I don't get why Clara was so surprised by Earth's choice.


• And I also don't entirely get why Clara and Courtney were so immediately attached to the moon baby. Like, way more attached to the moon baby than they were to the clearly struggling humanity down on Earth. To their own children and grandchildren down there. Courtney's a kid, she'd still be in the prime of her life in 2049, at least Clara should have been able to grasp that. I was on Lundvik's side the whole time, I thought her arguments were pretty solid. And I was confused that the episode seemed to think I should be on Clara's side of that decision? Again, I guess I'm just a horrible person.


• The beginning of the explorations in the moon colony were so dark I had no idea what was going on and that was actually super-effective in freaking me out.


• I loved the Tumblr shout-out. I laughed so hard. Especially when the Doctor was like, "You can't put pictures of me online!" Ha!


• So do you know who I do not like? I do not like Danny. Like, I actually can't stand him. This is odd, because I really, really liked him in his first episode. But my distaste for him has been growing. I did *not* like him during his date with Clara, I thought he was a judgey jerk, and he's just seemed like a judgey jerk every other subsequent time I see him. I'm trying to be charmed by him, I'm trying to see why Clara loves him, but he seems to just stand around being judgey about Clara and the Doctor all the time. And the Doctor is also a jerk in this incarnation so it's not that I don't see Danny's point, but it's also kind of like, well, Clara's known the Doctor for a while, and Danny met him once, and Danny's kind of like, "Yeah, I know everything about him, way more than you know, because I am so ~~wise~~, because did I mention I was a solider, and I know everything, and you know nothing, and it doesn't matter that you're dealing with a thousand-year-old alien who travels through time and space, it is all exactly like my time in the army and I know everything about it and can judge everything about you." Ugh. He makes me insane. I wish he didn't, because I think he's hot, and I know I'm supposed to be all squeeful over him and Clara, but I'm just like, "DANNY. GO AWAY." And maybe some of that is because I think Clara's chemistry with Twelve is off-the-charts and I love to watch them in a scene together but I don't feel any chemistry between Clara and Danny, they just fall flat for me. To go from Clara railing at the Doctor on the TARDIS to Clara's scene with Danny really drove that home for me.


• But I also think maybe some of my feeling toward Danny is because...I'm Clara, right? Like, I'm miffed at the Doctor but I've been watching this show a long time and I'm giving the Doctor some rope because we have a history together and basically *I am Clara* and I totally resent Danny swanning in to be like, "Hey, lady, why are you watching this show? He's not worth your time. I know all about it and you're just a silly girl who's confused and needs my superior guidance." ...I really don't like Danny, can you tell? He rubs me the wrong way. I must have a projection on him or something.

Comments

[lucinda wilcoxen (from livejournal.com)]

Yep, I'm with you. I really want to like this Doctor, because I really like Peter Capaldi, and there are brief flickers of a Doctor I could really like and then I'm slammed back into the "what the heck is going on here?" feeling. And I don't get the Danny thing either. Their chemistry is non-existent from where I sit. I'm relatively new to the Doctor Who experience, having come to it at the beginning of Eleven, but I've seen some of the Tennant and Eccleston episodes and liked them and this Doctor just feels a bit jarring so far. I had some resistance to Clara because I missed the Ponds so much, but I've come to like her a lot. I like her with this Doctor most of the time. I have hope things will settle out over the course of the season.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yes! Sometimes I really like the Doctor! I wish he would stick around forever!

And I'm with you on the non-existent chemistry. I just don't get on what level they're supposed to be clicking.

[fishface44.livejournal.com]

Agree, agree, agree. Danny is the guy that makes every conversation "did I mention how everything is like when I was in the army?"

Other things I liked:

The Doctor has polka dot shirts. Amazing.

I love showing passage of time by showing us that Clara is now on to lessons about David Copperfield.

Call me Clara, no thanks, Miss.

Bacteria "the size of a badger"

Courtney saving herself with antibacterial spray cleaner.

I am enjoying the season but I do hope the new Doctor softens just a little. i would love to see them pull back a bit on the Hartnell and add a bit of all the other Doctors.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Army army army army!

Loved the polka dot shirts!

And yes, love how Clara's class is advancing!

And also really loved how clever Courtney was. Good for her.

And yeah, I think they're hitting the Hartnell a bit too hard.

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

What's weird is that I don't hate this season. And last night, I considered myself such a fan of this episode, I mentally declared it the best since Waters of Mars.

I kind of love Twelve being a dick.
I loved Capaldi's BAFTA-worthy delivery of "The moon is an egg"
I loved Courtney like whoa
I loved that the bacteria!spiders were Moffat's usual distract-you-from-the-real-thing-happening trope because I hate spiders and was happy to move on from them rather quickly
I loved that the meat-and-bones of the episode was an ethics convo between three radically different but still strong women
I loved Clara ripping Himself a new one, and I equally bought Twelve's confusion because both viewpoints were relatable in that moment
Unlike you, I don't mind Danny, although I suspect half the reason Clara is sweet on him is manifest destiny

BUT--when I pull back from the episode, and view how others read it, I can see all of that too, and very much agree with most of it.

In short, this era confuses the hell out of me. And I don't think I'd like Twelve at all in the hands of a lesser actor than Capaldi. He's walking a tightrope, that one.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it *is* very confusing. I think the theory that they're going for a First Doctor vibe is right, and that it's a really careful balancing act they're trying to navigate.

It was awesome that Lundvik and Courtney were both two other awesome female characters, and I really loved both of them, but I still thought the whole plot point of Clara and Courtney helping Lundvik make the decision was...weird.

And yeah, I think Twelve really thought he was doing the right thing with what he did, and I felt bad for him when Clara was yelling at him, because he clearly has no idea what he's doing wrong. But I do hope he catches on quickly, because I also see Clara's point that it was a horrible thing to do to her.

And yeah, I also agree that I think Clara's so taken with Danny because she thinks she's *meant* to be taken with Danny. I would love if the Doctor finds out that Pink guy in the future had nothing to do with Clara and then suddenly Clara's like, "...Oh. Wait, I'm not sure I'm into this relationship anymore..."

[mars-daydream.livejournal.com]

I didn't know what to think about this episode, because near the end I realized we had a show about 3 women of different ages making a decision about a giant egg, and being lectured at by a man who then left them to decide, and then they chose the life of the egg but did it with a big button that said ABORT, and I honestly could not figure out what I was supposed to take away from this. It felt like this giant wobbly metaphor happened and I couldn't track the meaning of it. Clara didn't WANT the choice, either. I liked that it threw all of these big ideas into the air, because it was fun to think about, but I was not at all sure what it meant!

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yeah, so I was thinking, "Is this supposed to be some huge abortion debate metaphor?" but I don't know: Is the UK as weirdly obsessed with the issue of abortion as the US is? I feel like if this were a US show, I would have been like, "This is clearly meant to be some sort of commentary on this whole thing," but it felt so weird and awkward that, as you say, I didn't know what to make of it.

[mars-daydream.livejournal.com]

That's a good point, I don't know if it's different in the UK! But the word "ABORT," I don't know, it all kind of crashed in on me at that point. Weird, exactly!

[auntiesuze.livejournal.com]

I love Peter Capaldi, but his Doctor reminds me of everything I didn't like about Hartnell's Doctor. On one hand, I respect the old-school callback - not all of the Doctor's incarnations were squishy and nice - on the other hand, how long can you watch that sort of crankiness and...I don't think it's deliberate meanness...more like utter thoughtlessness for the people around him. He has lost his ability to relate to other people.

My hope is that they will do with him what they did with Hartnell...they warmed up the character. They allowed him to care and be funny, while still being tetchy. The balance just needs to be better.

Danny...I don't hate him, I just find him *meh*. I don't get why Clara is so enamored of him, either.

Courtney...heh, Courtney. She is the first teenager who absolutely behaves like a teenager. The kids on the Sarah Jane Adventures were far too polite and well-behaved. Courtney is much more like Catherine Tate's Lauren character was let loose in the TARDIS. XDDDDD I don't love her, but I love the idea of her.

As for the plot, I agree. If I didn't know this was Doctor Who and that saving the life of the moon baby was the whole point and where the whole thing was going, I would have been on board with Lundvik. Giant alien thing that could possibly destroy the Earth (as evidenced by the chaos and destruction the hatching is already causing) vs. potentially killing an innocent baby? How can you even make that decision? With no other information, it's a "the needs of the many vs. the needs of the few" situation. It sucks, but there it is.

Now, if the Doctor had told them that the baby was harmless and they still wanted to destroy it, that would have made a much better story. But, obviously, the point was to put Clara in an untenable situation so she'd be pissed off at the Doctor and validate Danny's prediction. Not liking that at all. Seems like a pointless point. :\

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they really are going for that overt First Doctor callback, like this is a reset button for Doctor regenerations, and I think that's interesting, and now that you've pointed it out it's given me real hope that they're working their way toward the balance One eventually had.

I don't get what Clara sees in him. I am waiting to see it myself.

And you're right, Courtney seemed more like a real teenager. Plus she kind of pushed the Doctor a bit and I feel like he needs to be pushed a bit. All the time, but even more in this current incarnation.

[bulleteyes.livejournal.com]

What a relief it is to read I am not alone in my thoughts on the current doctor and Capaldi. So many people were rhapsodizing about him and I kept thinking, "I don't get it!"

I thought the same think about Danny Pink. Here is Clara, a vivacious, brilliantly-off beautiful woman who radiates life and she picks Danny?

Which actually led me to wonder why she has anything to do with either of them.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I really, really wanted to like Capaldi's Doctor, I was really looking forward to him, and I just haven't gotten there yet.

I like what you say about Clara. She's so awesome, she should just go off and be awesome. :-)

[darkelfraya.livejournal.com]

Since the series started I've been telling myself 'Any minute now you'll fall for this Doctor like you did with David and Matt and all will be well again' ...And honestly I'm still waiting for that moment. It just isn't coming. I've almost felt like I'm forcing myself to keep watching, hoping for this lightbulb moment of 'Oh! There's my Doctor! I remember why I love this show now!'

I love Clara, I've loved her since she was Oswin in the Asylum episode. She just makes me smile, because she's clever and funny and can go toe to toe with the Doctor when she has to but she's still believable and real. I understood her leaving, being mad at the Doctor because I was mad at him for leaving and not going 'Oh, by the way, it's harmless and saving it will be a good thing for everyone' He didn't act like the Doctor I knew, I felt like he should have been telling off Lundvik for having weapons and just wanting to kill this creature without learning anything about it and citing how this creature was conceivably the last of its kind and therefore should be saved and cared for... etc, etc. He just lost his Doctor-y-ness for me there, being all 'Do what you like, I'm just popping off to the shops, we're nearly out of milk'

...But I'm ranting. I loved Courtney, she's sassy and clever too (and totally should have wandered off and found the swimming pool, whether it's still in the library or not). And I feel like this just cemented my feeling that the TARDIS needs more than just the Doctor and Clara on board. The Doctor needs companions, he needs company. (I'd love him and the bank-robbing team to get back together, they made for a fun dynamic together)

I'm going to keep watching and hoping for my lightbulb moment of love... but I don't think it's coming.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I miss really loving the Doctor. But I really do think they're getting us there. I'm fine with him being grouchy, I'd just also like those little moments where you fall in love with him because of how amazing he can be. It was weird that he had nothing inspirational to say, no guidance to offer. Like, since when does he stay out of things?

Although I guess maybe he's trying this new thing out and he's realizing that it isn't going to work? I mean, it did seem like he was shocked by how angry Clara was.

LOVED THE BANK ROBBERY TEAM. I WANT THEM AROUND ALL THE TIME.

[np-complete.livejournal.com]

I watched this episode for the first time before watching Ep 8 later in the evening. By coincidence, I had just told someone the story of an older male relative who used to praise my child-art to the skies but lost the ability to say a single nice thing when I hit middle school and started progressing like every other child who draws does.

My art had no merit, you see: drafting, composition, all terrible. And he said so. And when challenged said, no, there was nothing good to be said for my drawings. They were just like every other eleven-year-old's.

So I stopped drawing. And never have again.

All this to say that I could really relate to Courtney and his saying she wasn't special after all, and what it did to her, and how he couldn't bring himself to say he didn't mean it, despite being strongly prompted by Clara.

I don't get why he is so *mean*. I keep hoping there's some point to it, because he's supposed to be wise and experienced and he's alienating people who want to love him. Or at least like him. Or trust him.

How hard is it to be nice to children?? it's not like he has any scruples about lying when it serves *his* purposes.

I think I have a lot of feelings about this!

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

Yes! You make a good point that he lies all the time! Why couldn't he just lie a bit to Courtney?

I really would have understood if the message was that Courtney was a brat who thought she too good for everything, but I got the impression that Courtney really kind of needed to be believed in a bit, and she didn't get that.

[jenrose]

I loathed, utterly loathed this episode. Everything was wrong about it for me. The science was so grotesquely off that I just could not accept a moment of the entire thing, and I'm normally pretty forgiving of the science stuff. But it was so very off that I kept being thrown into "It doesn't work like that. It *cannot* work like that. There is no realm in which it could POSSIBLY work like that."