The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Three
Sep. 4th, 2011 02:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
earlgreytea68Like a Kid in a Candy Store
What I like about this fic, especially in light of the anniversary fic I just posted, is that Rose isn't exactly upset that the Doctor forgot Valentine's Day: She's upset because he remembered Valentine's Day and refused to acknowledge it. Rose, even at this early point in the relationship, has clearly come to terms with the fact that the Doctor is rubbish at remembering the little human days of meaning. She's unhappy that he would belittle the little human days of meaning, though. Which I think is a fair point. Rose is a different species than he is, and maybe her penchant for holidays is a very human way to mark the turning of the years, but she wants the Doctor to respect that as part of her heritage.
Of course, I think the Doctor makes an excellent point about Valentine's Day. It's really the same point he makes about anniversaries in "Pre-Coital Chips": He loves her every single day. Why should any day in particular be the day when he emphasizes that? The Doctor, I think, seldom takes his life for granted in the way that humans can, which could be part of why humans need special days like that to force them to take a breath and acknowledge their amazing luck. That and the fact that I genuinely think that, at the end of your life, your memories start to become a press of this Christmas and that Thanksgiving, with all the in-between days blending together for the most part. The Doctor doesn't suffer from that problem, that need to put signposts in his past to remember it. He just doesn't see the point, I don't think.
Well. That got a bit philosophical in a way I didn't intend.
Also, I think it's noteworthy in this fic that Rose knows they're doing more than just shagging, because I think that was a realization hard-won by the argument in "Everywhere." But she's not clear enough to know exactly what they are (honestly, I think it shows how young she still is in the Chaosverse that she's still trying to characterize it in such human terms).
Now, this fic is also one of those places where you would think I'm very clever and have been setting things up FOREVER. I haven't been. When Fortuna's story takes place in Paris, and this fic slots so nicely into the conversation Rose and the Doctor have with Jack that triggers his recollection of the name "Valentin," yeah, that was completely unplanned, it just happened. I am very, very lucky. (I also like the minor bit of foreshadowing in this fic, when the Doctor asks if Rose trusts him not to let her fall. I don't think I planned that, either.)
Questions for Discussion:
I cannot believe that, in all these years, I’ve never been in a proper Earth candy store! Frankly, I can't believe it, either. Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
I want all of you to know that![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
arctacuda was awesome enough to get me a 1937 book for New Orleans. Aren't you all looking forward to whatever smut comes out of those excursions? Anyway, the story the Doctor tells Rose here is, roughly speaking, the story I was told at the Old North Church. Only, you know, in more Doctor-ish language (I hope).
There's a lot of POV-switching in this fic, from Rose to the Doctor and back again, etc. I think it works. I know this sort of narration seems to be disfavored these days, and I've fallen into the habit of picking one POV and sticking with it, but I always thought romantic stories sometimes benefitted by a third-person omniscient narrator who was able to tell you what everyone was thinking, all in one scene. Because sometimes you want the reader to know more than the character, and you want the reader to know more right then, not in a later scene. I don't know, I don't think there's necessarily a rule about POV in fiction, I think the trick is just to be cognizant of where your POV is and what you're doing with it. <--my two cents
Questions for Discussion:
The Doctor references playing poker with Longfellow. Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
What's strange is that I thought, re-reading this chapter, I would be siezed with such nostalgia. But, truthfully, I had no idea when I started writing this fic what I was going to end up with. So, while I'm fond of this chapter and have affection toward it, there are other bits of my fic that I love far more. This feels weirdly rusty to me, like I hadn't quite established the rhythm of the relationship I was building. It gets there, of course, over the course of the fic, but this chaper feels like the first chapter of a fic to me--and yet, it's several fics into the story already. So, there's a bit of a disconnect to me there, if that makes any sense. And I think I hit my stride later in the story.
However, that is not to say that I don't love this chapter, because I very much do. But we still haven't met Brem. And I have to admit that, of everything I've written in the Chaosverse, the fact that it introduced me to Brem is my favorite thing about it.
“Friends with any? Since when did he have friends?" Ha! This line is so Sherlockian! Poor Doctor, part of the point of Chaosverse was that, by the end of it, he would stop thinking these lonely thoughts about himself. And he totally has, so I did that right. :-)
The conversation about how Rose changes the Doctor's mind about visiting Jackie by promising him a cup of tea now, in the wake of "Things Continue to Progress," reads entirely euphemistically to me. Which was not how I intended it. But I kind of like that reading of it.
So, I think it's funny that the Doctor has no idea that Rose suspects she's pregnant, but, in fairness to the Doctor, Rose really, by this point in their relationship, should have just been blunt with him. I guess I'll give her a pass because I think that Rose is absolutely terrified in this chapter and barely holding things together (although I don't think it comes to the surface until she breaks down with her mum in a later chapter). And at least she acknowledges her mistake.
Questions for Discussion:
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
Next Week: Chapters 2, 3, and 4 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space
What I like about this fic, especially in light of the anniversary fic I just posted, is that Rose isn't exactly upset that the Doctor forgot Valentine's Day: She's upset because he remembered Valentine's Day and refused to acknowledge it. Rose, even at this early point in the relationship, has clearly come to terms with the fact that the Doctor is rubbish at remembering the little human days of meaning. She's unhappy that he would belittle the little human days of meaning, though. Which I think is a fair point. Rose is a different species than he is, and maybe her penchant for holidays is a very human way to mark the turning of the years, but she wants the Doctor to respect that as part of her heritage.
Of course, I think the Doctor makes an excellent point about Valentine's Day. It's really the same point he makes about anniversaries in "Pre-Coital Chips": He loves her every single day. Why should any day in particular be the day when he emphasizes that? The Doctor, I think, seldom takes his life for granted in the way that humans can, which could be part of why humans need special days like that to force them to take a breath and acknowledge their amazing luck. That and the fact that I genuinely think that, at the end of your life, your memories start to become a press of this Christmas and that Thanksgiving, with all the in-between days blending together for the most part. The Doctor doesn't suffer from that problem, that need to put signposts in his past to remember it. He just doesn't see the point, I don't think.
Well. That got a bit philosophical in a way I didn't intend.
Also, I think it's noteworthy in this fic that Rose knows they're doing more than just shagging, because I think that was a realization hard-won by the argument in "Everywhere." But she's not clear enough to know exactly what they are (honestly, I think it shows how young she still is in the Chaosverse that she's still trying to characterize it in such human terms).
Now, this fic is also one of those places where you would think I'm very clever and have been setting things up FOREVER. I haven't been. When Fortuna's story takes place in Paris, and this fic slots so nicely into the conversation Rose and the Doctor have with Jack that triggers his recollection of the name "Valentin," yeah, that was completely unplanned, it just happened. I am very, very lucky. (I also like the minor bit of foreshadowing in this fic, when the Doctor asks if Rose trusts him not to let her fall. I don't think I planned that, either.)
Questions for Discussion:
I cannot believe that, in all these years, I’ve never been in a proper Earth candy store! Frankly, I can't believe it, either. Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
I want all of you to know that
arctacuda was awesome enough to get me a 1937 book for New Orleans. Aren't you all looking forward to whatever smut comes out of those excursions? Anyway, the story the Doctor tells Rose here is, roughly speaking, the story I was told at the Old North Church. Only, you know, in more Doctor-ish language (I hope). There's a lot of POV-switching in this fic, from Rose to the Doctor and back again, etc. I think it works. I know this sort of narration seems to be disfavored these days, and I've fallen into the habit of picking one POV and sticking with it, but I always thought romantic stories sometimes benefitted by a third-person omniscient narrator who was able to tell you what everyone was thinking, all in one scene. Because sometimes you want the reader to know more than the character, and you want the reader to know more right then, not in a later scene. I don't know, I don't think there's necessarily a rule about POV in fiction, I think the trick is just to be cognizant of where your POV is and what you're doing with it. <--my two cents
Questions for Discussion:
The Doctor references playing poker with Longfellow. Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
What's strange is that I thought, re-reading this chapter, I would be siezed with such nostalgia. But, truthfully, I had no idea when I started writing this fic what I was going to end up with. So, while I'm fond of this chapter and have affection toward it, there are other bits of my fic that I love far more. This feels weirdly rusty to me, like I hadn't quite established the rhythm of the relationship I was building. It gets there, of course, over the course of the fic, but this chaper feels like the first chapter of a fic to me--and yet, it's several fics into the story already. So, there's a bit of a disconnect to me there, if that makes any sense. And I think I hit my stride later in the story.
However, that is not to say that I don't love this chapter, because I very much do. But we still haven't met Brem. And I have to admit that, of everything I've written in the Chaosverse, the fact that it introduced me to Brem is my favorite thing about it.
“Friends with any? Since when did he have friends?" Ha! This line is so Sherlockian! Poor Doctor, part of the point of Chaosverse was that, by the end of it, he would stop thinking these lonely thoughts about himself. And he totally has, so I did that right. :-)
The conversation about how Rose changes the Doctor's mind about visiting Jackie by promising him a cup of tea now, in the wake of "Things Continue to Progress," reads entirely euphemistically to me. Which was not how I intended it. But I kind of like that reading of it.
So, I think it's funny that the Doctor has no idea that Rose suspects she's pregnant, but, in fairness to the Doctor, Rose really, by this point in their relationship, should have just been blunt with him. I guess I'll give her a pass because I think that Rose is absolutely terrified in this chapter and barely holding things together (although I don't think it comes to the surface until she breaks down with her mum in a later chapter). And at least she acknowledges her mistake.
Questions for Discussion:
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
Next Week: Chapters 2, 3, and 4 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space
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no subject
Date: 2011-09-04 07:17 pm (UTC)-I really wish you hadn't pointed that out. Because until now I'd just read that line and not thought about it. But now all I'm thinking is, "So where did you get all those jelly babies in your fourth incarnation, Doctor?" LoL. Perhaps one time in his first or second incarnation he bulk ordered a ton of them (which were delivered to the TARDIS, and he then had to sign for) and he stored them away in a jelly baby cupboard until his fourth regeneration got a taste for them. That's why he's always offering them to people. So he can get rid of them all. Okay tangent over. :P I seem to remember thinking "Haven't you done this before" a lot in the lodger episode. Though what specifically slips my mind right now. As far as chaos!verse goes, it always surprised me that he'd never been flying before Fortuna mentioned it. If had all of time and space at my fingertips I feel like that would be one of the first things I'd have looked into. (Though it is one of my favorite stories, so I guess I'm kind of glad he hadn't).
-I'm glad you didn't give us a lot of details about the Doctor and Rose's room, because pretty much regardless of what fic I'm reading, the TARDIS looks pretty much the same in my mind, with the exception of Rose and the Doctor's bedroom. In your fic, I imagine the bedroom is fairly spartan. King-sized bed against the left wall, bed side table and lamp on either side. Opposite the bed is a wardrobe that is sometimes a vanity, depending on what Rose/the Doctor needs it for. Beside the wardrobe is the door to the bathroom. The walls are dark green, sometimes, blue, I think it depends on what's going on, and the carpet can be a pinkish-red, cream, or blue depending on the wall color. Rose sleeps on the side closest to the door. And the only times they're ever really in there is for sleeping and shagging. In this fic when you said fireplace I immediately thought library, despite that you specifically said bedroom. And since no shagging or sleeping took place, it always stayed that way in my mind. (For some reason, the TARDIS kitchen in my mind is very small as well. Like apartment kitchen small. But the libraries are enormous).
"One if by Land, Two if by Sea"
-I like to think he's played poker with Casanova. In fact, that's when they got to making bets. And now the Doctor owes him a chicken. I like to think that the Doctor randomly shows up at places like old western saloons to play poker for fun. I'm sure he also drops in on Parisian salons and Roman baths. Not so much famous people I guess, but I think he likes to mingle and hang out (and then peace out and head to the next place).
-Hm. What historical event is awesome enough to be the place where Brem was conceived? I feel like it has to be something celebratory. Perhaps this is the moment when he takes her accidentally to London in 1953 when she's wearing that gorgeous pink dress. He'll shag her at the party after the coronation :P
Chaos Theory Chapter 1
-I think the pacing is fine in this chapter. The Doctor totally works for me. First he's flustered, and defensive, but I think he quickly deflates when he realizes Rose needs him. And I think he is happy, but at the same time there's a whole jumble of other more panicked emotions, and all of it's a little too much for him to process all at once. To me, this chapter reads very believably.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-04 11:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-05 04:46 am (UTC)I know just what you mean about the TARDIS, I generally have my own layout as well. Funny enough, my idea of the kitchen and library sound a whole lot like yours.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-07 03:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-07 03:27 am (UTC)The Lodger is definitely an episode where it seems like the Doctor is far more flummoxed by human life than he really should be considering how much time he's spent on Earth.
And I could see how flying seems like something the Doctor would have tried before!
I think the bedroom in my head is pretty spartan as well, and, for some reason, dark: dark woods, dark colors. They don't use it very often, but every once in a while I do stick the Doctor tinkering by the fireplace. I agree, the library is enormous, but the kitchen is a pretty typical size (probably a bit bigger than an apartment).
Poker with Casanova! Yes! And I love the idea of him just hanging around in Parisian salons and Roman baths, meeting all sorts of regular people.
Awwww, that's a nice Brem conception idea!
I think you're right, that the Doctor immediately falls into Rose-needs-me mode, because there's just so much for him to process than he can only focus on one thing at once.
Book Club - part 1
Date: 2011-09-04 11:56 pm (UTC)I cannot believe that, in all these years, I’ve never been in a proper Earth candy store! Frankly, I can't believe it, either. Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
Hmmmm.... for some reason, this never really bothered me. I mean, yes, 900 years old, but he also has the entire universe and all of time to explore. 900 years doesn't seem nearly enough time to experience everything! And there are a lot of things that humans in their own time miss out on- I'll always remember being perplexed by random things that my Australian roomies in Japan didn't know about! Or things that were absolutely everyday, commonplace things in Japan, but that most Americans never would have imagined. And again, I think this is why the Doctor loves traveling- he loves getting to experience all of these new things, and is rather like (forgive the terrible pun) a kid in a candy shop when he finds something new.
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
I'd imagine it's probably gotten nicer since they started sharing- I'm sure the TARDIS gave Rose a lovely room, but did the Doctor really ever need a bedroom? He probably would take his every-five-years nap on the sofa in the library or something. I imagine it's got fairly dark-ish walls, like a deep purple or blue, and all the furniture is in dark wood. I think they would definitely enjoy the fireplace, and I'm sure there are many, many times that the Doctor has sat by that fireplace while Rose is sleeping. I'm sure there are always pieces of things on the table there for him to tinker with :)
Lovely little fic- and while I adore the Doctor's sentiment that he doesn't need a specific day to tell Rose how much he loves her, I like that he still tries to make it up to her.
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Can't wait to see what fun that 1937 New Orleans book brings (as soon as it gets cooler and it stops freaking RAINING!) And before I get to the proper questions:
"They had landed in a narrow, damp alley, and Rose wrinkled her nose a bit, because it smelled the way times before modern plumbing always smelled LOVE this line. It's such a random little thing that you wouldn't necessarily think about, but HOW TRUE. It's the details like this that make your 'verse so REAL.
And these lines are just brilliant, and giggle-inducing:
“Why are you stopping? That is entirely unfair. I’ll lodge a complaint.”
She looked amused. “With who?”
“With…me. Myself. I’ll be conscious of the complaint against you. You just wait.” *dies*
Ok, proper questions:
The Doctor references playing poker with Longfellow. Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
Oh, lots of people, I'm sure! Definitely people like Einstein or Leonardo da Vinci (I want a story about the Doctor and da Vinci!!! That would be epic!), just to prove to himself how 'clever' he is.
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
Oooh, tough question! I'd think something that Rose was wanting to visit, and something where she was dressed up. Perhaps going to the opening of a Shakespearian play? (Have they met Shakespeare in the Chaosverse? I can't remember! That would be fun!)
Re: Book Club - part 2
Date: 2011-09-04 11:56 pm (UTC)The thing that I love about the start of this story is how thick the Doctor is. And it was brilliant to do it from his viewpoint- Rose is asking perfectly reasonable questions (at least in her mind!) and the Doctor is just CLUELESS. Love it!
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
No, I don't think it's rushed. Because as thick as the Doctor can be sometimes (see above!), he also processes things MUCH FASTER than us humans. And the fact that it is Rose ("But it seemed that a baby, with Rose, would be the most amazing thing.") makes it easier for him to accept, even if he is surprised to hear the words coming out of his own mouth. He just loves her so much- of course he is going to love the idea of a baby. And, perhaps somewhere in his timey-wimey brain, he knows that this baby is going to turn out to be Brem, and therefore AWESOME.
Re: Book Club - part 2
Date: 2011-09-07 03:35 am (UTC)Oooh, good point on how quickly the Doctor can process things. And I do think it helps the Doctor that the baby is with Rose. The Doctor always feels better when he knows he's got Rose with him. And yes--hee! Maybe he senses the approach of Brem!
Re: Book Club - part 1
Date: 2011-09-07 03:34 am (UTC)Yes, I think the bedroom barely existed before Rose started sleeping with the Doctor. It had a bed he never slept in and a bathroom that was a mess. It's much nicer now. And I agree with you, I think the Doctor used to frequently sit by the fireplace and tinker while Rose slept, before the kids were born. And now that the kids are out of the house, too, I suppose!
The 1937 book is going to be SO MUCH FUN!
The Doctor and da Vinci! What a great idea!!
I don't think they've met Shakespeare in the Chaosverse. It might be referenced, in the fic where they meet Dickens? Or it might not be, I genuinely do not recall. I GUESS WE WILL FIND OUT ON THE RE-READ!
Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-05 04:53 am (UTC)I love the 'spread vulva' joke, and the fact that Rose knew right away that he'd said it in the candy store. And the last line, just priceless.
Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
Hmm... not anything that I can think of. There aren't many times, at least canonically, that the Doctor claims something as his first. The only one I can even think of is being slapped by some one's mother, but that one I can see as being true.
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
I would think, in the beginning, that I could look like any generic bedroom. Especially if it was originally the Doctor's bedroom. I've always imagined that it would be a room much neglected, some where that he avoids. I could see the Doctor having a lot of nightmares and trying to sleep as little as possible. But over time, it would change to be their room. Maybe the fireplace was added after Rose starting sharing it and a comfy couch to curl up on together in front of it. The room would evolve with them, and when she comes back from Pete's world, after the “You can't lock the door anymore” incident, there would have to be enough furniture in the room for the Doctor and all the kids to get comfy. I could see them sitting around a little table playing a bored game, or the Athena being crafty while the boys tinker, with Rose sleeping peacefully within sight.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-07 03:52 am (UTC)You know, I can see the Doctor's mother-slap being the first one, and at the same time, I'm like, "If you've been this cheeky all through space and time, it should have happened long before this!"
Awww, poor Doctor, not wanting to sleep! I think you're right, that the room evolves to suit the family's changing needs. It's certainly big enough for all of them to sprawl out a bit as a family, so that they can spend time together.
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-05 04:55 am (UTC)Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
I'm not much of a history buff, so I can't think of any names. But, I could see him believing that he's a wonderful player, all the while being pretty horrible at it, and having a long list of historical figures that he calls cheats.
What historical event do you think that might have been?
'm going to have to start studying history, there's just no way around it now, because I have no idea. hahaha
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-08 02:38 am (UTC)And yes, sometimes DW can help you learn history!
Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
Date: 2011-09-05 04:57 am (UTC)Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
I think that if it were any human male that Rose had asked those questions to, they would have caught on fairly quickly, and Rose was maybe counting on that. The Doctor, on the other hand, for all of his lying and misdirection, always seems to expect the people around him to be straight forward. I could also see him having a big problem with denial. He's had and lost a family already. Even if he's accepted a life with Rose, he still thinks that he'll lose her one day, the thought of having a family with her probably never crossed his mind. If for no other reason than it would make him happy, and I don't think that he believes that he can be/ deserves to be truly happy.
I don't think this feels rushed at all. Since when does the Doctor ever do anything slow and in the right order? Excitement first, panic comes after he's actually had time to think about it.
Re: Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
Date: 2011-09-08 02:39 am (UTC)Yeah, a human male would at least have started to suspect. The Doctor really had no clue... And yeah, the Doctor genuinely never thought he would ever have a family with Rose. He just didn't think stuff like that happens to him. He didn't think he'd ever get that kind of second chance.
Ha! Good point, the Doctor never does anything slowly, does he?
no subject
Date: 2011-09-07 03:55 pm (UTC)A Kid in a Candy Store
I like what you said above about Rose still being young here. I think that's such a truthful statement especially since we all have hindsight to know what is coming for them. Rose is still figuring out exactly what it means to be in a relationship with a Time Lord and how that's different than any other relationship she's ever had. He sees the universe in a fundamentally different way and I think that even after hundreds of years together she's never truly going to get that. She tries and she accepts but I feel that one some level he's always going to be just a tiny bit baffling to her and that's one of the many reasons she loves him so much.
One if by land, two if by sea
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
WOW how sad that I didn't even think of the fact that Brem would have been conceived around her. I guess I always just kind of assumed there could have been a gap between this and Chaos. It's an interesting thinking point though. Given Brem's scientific name I like to think it was some event that involved Scientific progress, like the discovery of gravity or the fact that the planets revolve around the sun and not the earth.
I wanted to say too about this story how interesting it was reading it again now AFTER I've visited Old North Church. I have a more concrete picture in my head for sure, but at the same time I also noticed how rich and how accurate your description of the church is. It meshes very well with my memory and photographs of the building. I'm assuming though that it's no longer the tallest building in Boston?
Chapter 1 of "Chaos Theory"
I love the fact that you had the Doctor be so clueless in this chapter because I think that he would be. And I think that if he had figured out why Rose was asking all those questions he probably would have been terrified and maybe would have run away for a bit. Also, it adds some hilarious comedy and the moment where Rose orders him into the TARDIS had me in hysterics. Had you always intended to start this story right off the bat with the pregnancy? I read it after the fact so am I right in assuming that this was actually the first thing you wrote in this universe and all the precursors we've just read came afterward? If so, were you concerned about diving right in without readers seeing any of the build up of their relationship to get them to that point?
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
I think that the Doctor is doing a very good job at ACTING like he's come around to the idea, but I'm sure that in reality he's freaking out and hasn't fully thought about what it all means. In light of how he finds out and how frustrated Rose was I think that he's probably a bit worried about upsetting her more especially if he reacts in anyway negatively. His primary concern is adorably for the safety of Rose and their baby, so I think he also doesn't want to show her any sign of him remotely freaking out because he doesn't want to stress her out. Either way, I don't think it was rushed. I think it makes sense that the Doctor would want to make things right now and would save his panicking for later once he's had time to really think about it.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-09 03:37 am (UTC)I think I always assumed there was an unspecified gap between "One If by Land" and the beginning of "Chaos Theory" but it's fun to pretend that maybe it was right around this time that Brem was conceived. And I like your thought of it being at something like the discovery of gravity. Awesome! Newton would love that! ;-)
I'm glad my description of the Old North Church fits with your memories of it! And nope, no longer the tallest building in Boston, now that skyscrapers have turned up, but it is still the tallest in the North End, I think. It certainly still stands out when you look at that portion of the city.
I always just wanted to start "Chaos Theory" right in the middle of the pregnancy. I've always really enjoyed writing established relationships, and that's what Rose and the Doctor have here. I kind of thought people could fill in the getting-together story with whatever version of events they preferred. I didn't intend to keep writing so much in the universe!
Yeah, I think the Doctor finds it easier to hold things together while he has Rose to take care of. He panics much later. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2011-09-10 10:15 pm (UTC)I've always loved this line:
“Ah.” Now the humans in the store all smiled at him in sympathy.
I do love the idea that the Doctor doesn't take his life for granted on any day, especially with this remarkable thing he has with Rose.
This fic also reminds me of something else I love about Chaosverse Ten - he's certainly not perfect. He's sometimes rude, and he forgets things, and he can be incredibly oblivious regardless of how clever he is. Even when Rose is quite upset, he doesn't always understand why. And Rose accepts all of these things and loves him regardless. I think writers are sometimes inclined to ignore the things that would make the Doctor frustrating as a romantic partner. You let Ten have his faults, but let Rose acknowledge them and love him just the same, which is far more authentic.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-13 02:42 am (UTC)And I'm glad the Doctor doesn't come across as too perfect. I actually love his little annoying traits, because I think they make him him, and I think Rose really loves them, too, and wouldn't have him any other way (even though sometimes she wishes otherwise, of course!).
no subject
Date: 2011-09-11 07:36 pm (UTC)As
I don't think I have any thoughts regarding the discussion questions, but I do love the idea of the Doctor travelling through space and time and holding petty grudges. It makes me giggle. He certainly doesn't like to be shown up at anything.
I think the POV switches work perfectly - I definitely didn't mean it as a criticism when I brought it up last time around - it's just not something I'm used to seeing, at least in this corner of fanfic, and I thought it was interesting. You're right - there's certainly a way to do it so it works. If it's done poorly, it can be very jarring, but you absolutely do it in a way that's not, and in a way that makes the story richer.
I love Rose describing the way the Doctor teases her, and I actually find the image of this kind of hot, even though it occurs far before the smut. I just love that he touches her instead of just pointing:
The Doctor shifted Rose slightly, so that she was looking out over a much flatter area of the city, from which a single steeple emerged, overshadowing the small buildings around it.
Last of all, it seems that there's always one line of a fic that sticks with me, and the one from this story is:
“It doesn’t really…” He watched her hand tug down his zipper. “It doesn’t really seem like nothing.”
HEE. ♥♥♥
no subject
Date: 2011-09-14 03:04 am (UTC)Hahahahaha! Poor Doctor, you just *know* he sulks through time and space.
I didn't think you meant it as a criticism, but it's true that I seldom see it done anymore. I wonder if it's not fashionable anymore or something?
Awww, yeah, they love to be touching each other, these two.
And I love that that's your favorite line!
no subject
Date: 2011-09-11 07:43 pm (UTC)I for one really like what the Doctor has to say about Valentine's and anniversaries. It seems so him, just a bit alien but really very reasonable when it is spelled out. And I love that Rose does seem to get it she just can't help wanting what she was raised to want. I love it in any story when the Doctor and Rose have to work out their cultural differences.
I really like the feel in S2 that the Doctor and Rose are dating. He is always trying to take her to concerts or the Olympics. I'd like to think they'd just been to see the Beetles or some other date like thing.
I've always adored how quickly the Doctor comes around to the idea of a baby in this 'verse. This paragraph in particular always strikes me. I love the Doctor's thoughts here and is slowly growing excitement. He looked away, frowning thoughtfully. The idea was so very new he could barely begin to comprehend it. But it seemed that a baby,with Rose, would be the most amazing thing. A baby. On the TARDIS. Could it even be done? And, if it could be, he thought, then it was going to be done on
his TARDIS. I love how he thinks immediately of having a child on his TARDIS. Clearly such a thing had never been attempted before as far as he knew. He seems to take it almost as a challenge. I love his enthusiasm and racing thoughts. Brilliant.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-15 02:31 am (UTC)The Doctor's take on things is usually just coming at them from a different angle. So it requires stepping into his shoes, I think. And Rose can grasp that intellectually, but sometimes you can't get your intellect to govern your emotions.
I totally agree with you, I think the Doctor and Rose *were* dating in S2, there's no other explanation for their actions!
I like how people have said that it makes sense that he comes around so quickly, because he's the Doctor, he processes things quickly! And oh, yes, the Doctor can't walk away from a challenge! ;-)
Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-14 06:05 am (UTC)I think Rose’s line to the Doctor of, “Well, that’s just adorable,” when he produces not one, but two chocolate heart boxes pretty much sums up my thoughts about this story. I love the fact that Rose mourns the fact that the Doctor passed up Valentine’s Day. I love how you explain the Doctor’s reasoning behind doing so, and that we got to see both sides to the equation.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-14 06:05 am (UTC)I’ve gotten very off track, and I’m sorry! I just think that because the Time Lord part of them is so strong, I can see them celebrating human holidays to “appease” Rose, if you will, and never found the appreciation in doing it for themselves. Which is a slightly sad thought, especially if viewing from Rose’s POV.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-14 06:06 am (UTC)I would have loved another reference to the tie... perhaps he was wearing it the next day? I would have loved to find out if it clashed or went perfectly with his brown suit. But I love the indiscriminate details in stories, so don’t mind me. *grins*
Out of all of the things I assume the Doctor has done, it’s usually the most obvious that I find amusing to find out he’s not done at all. The candy store idea was brilliant, and LadyChi is a good friend of mine - did she come up with the suggestion of the candy store? I found it hilarious that the Doctor does go in for a purpose and is immediately distracted by the bright and shiny and sugary that the stores has to offer, before remembering his reason for going.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-14 06:06 am (UTC)I thought the Eiffel tower was the epitome of romantic, although I did worry for a few moments on the safety of being the “first guests” on it... I was partly expecting an accident of some sort. :) Luckily, it was just romantic and safe in the end.
When I try and think of what other kinds of things I assume the Doctor has never done or tried before, I usually think of things human children would experience. Because he doesn’t travel with human children, and probably hasn’t travelled with companions that have human children, and so I wouldn’t think (unless saving a human child were in the picture) that he’d have much contact with one to do things that a human child would experience. Like go to a candy store. Or to a human park, like they experience in a later story. I think the Doctor reading, “I am Sam” was very surprising to me, as I expected him to read something in Galifreyan, or something in the physical sciences or something. But I loved that addition. I wonder if Rose introduced Dr. Suess, and he latched onto it, or if in a past trip, he went to meet the author for one reason or another. I think you capture the things the Doctor hasn’t done beautifully, and that’s partly why I love reading this series, because you bring up things I just hadn’t thought about and make them into a splendid tale, which I love. Like the Doctor cooking. I love that he just can’t, and hasn’t, and he is really bad at it. Or the Doctor’s enthusiasm to finding out about Girl Scouts. I love that by having children, he’s once again introduced to a lot of human things that otherwise, he wouldn’t have gotten the opportunity to learn.
My only other thought that comes to the forefront of my mind would be the Doctor in discussing past relationships with Rose. Apparently, he’s had sex before. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen David Tennant’s “Recovery,” but in it, there is this one conversation he’s talking about with his wife about his first time having sex, and he is embarrassed to admit that everything he went to bed with the girl knowing, he learned from a library book. So he’s talking about her “secretions” to her and whatnot, and using terms that we don’t define as “sexy” and it’s just endearingly hilarious. I imagine the Doctor’s first time being with a human similar. I would love a story where Rose and the Doctor do that post-first-coital talk where they bring up past lovers and experiences, just to learn something about each other. It’s always amusing.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-14 06:07 am (UTC)And a question: Where did you hear about, or discover, or how did you make up the thought that the “heart” was more like a “spread vulva,” than an actual heart? That was just writing genius, and had me laughing out loud, very embarrassingly. And the Doctor’s response towards the two people in the shop even knowing what a spread vulva was, and pitying the human race if they didn’t... So funny. Pure genius.
I do love the fact that Rose just KNOWS that he said that to the shop people as soon as it’s out of his mouth. I can just see her roll her eyes, or put her head in her hands. Makes me wonder how often he did do and say things like that in front of her, where she just stood there and wanted to die of embarrassment, while at the same time, finding him again, completely adorable.
I think what I love most about this fic is the fact that Rose was looking forward somewhat to viewing this Valentine’s Day as a show of emotional commitment. I love that she’s vulnerable and a little insecure about what she and the Doctor are. It’s a very female human trait to need some type of verbal commitment, and I love her insecurities shown in this story. I wonder if it ever even crossed the Doctor’s mind that she might need to hear him say “we’re a couple”... in fact, without reading further at the minute, I can’t even recall a conversation where they “commit” to one another before they are “commited,” if that makes any sense. Perhaps it’s the pregnancy and the conversations that follow her insecurities about that that give both she and the Doctor the ability to say the verbal commitments to one another. But I suppose up to that point, they are still like a very new relationship that hasn’t progressed enough to have “THE TALK” about where they stand with one another. And I find that wonderful. In all of time and space, and even with the last of his kind, and all of the fairy tale wonder that goes with Doctor Who, what makes reading about him most enjoyable for me, are the human moments that he has to go through, just like every other human man.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-20 02:57 am (UTC)I don't know where I got the spread vulva thing from. It had to be Wikipedia, which is where I get most of my research from, but I don't even remember how I happened upon it. Suffice it to say, it's a true theory that people had, since our hearts look nothing like the symbol for them.
I think Rose got past the embarrassment fairly quickly. It's up to the kids to be embarrassed after that. ;-)
Rose and the Doctor are in what feels to Rose like a precarious situation. She doesn't know what they are, and the Doctor doesn't realize that Rose needs to have a name to put onto it. I think the Doctor was committed to Rose the instant that he kissed her. I don't think the Doctor does that lightly. I think he didn't understand that Rose could ever think he didn't mean forever with her from that very first moment, if that makes sense. And it's true that they never really have a conversation about "commitment," until they just *are.* It likes the Doctor says to her in "Pre-Coital Chips": He considered them to be married long before there was an actual ceremony.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-20 02:49 am (UTC)Nope, no accident this time. This was a nice, romantic, uneventful outing for Rose.
You have a good point about the children events being the events that the Doctor probably missed out on (like Girl Scouts). Or, at least, really getting why those events would be desirable in the first place, the way he was with Disney World. Also, I think Dr. Seuss was an alien and the Doctor knew him well.
We never see the Doctor cooking, and he never really discusses it. I thought it was not outside of the realm of possibility that he just never wanted to cook. But that is what kids should do for you, I think: expand your world's horizons. Even a world as expansive as the Doctor's had been.
I have never seen "Recovery," alas. But yeah, I've never done a fic where the Doctor really goes over his sexual history. I like to think he went through a phase where he decided he was going to Figure Sex Out, that it was a huge quest of his.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-20 02:42 am (UTC)I think he was being exceptionally obtuse with the gift. I don't think Rose made a habit of giving him just-because gifts, I think he genuinely had no idea what other reason she might be giving him a gift for.
I'm sorry I never brought up the tie again. It matched perfectly and the Doctor wore it immediately.
I think it was LadyChi's prompt, yes!
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-20 02:40 am (UTC)And yeah, all of them understand what it feels like to have empty heads now, regardless of what the Doctor wanted for his kids. They all have a keen sympathy for their dad now, not just Fortuna. Fortuna's just the one who was born that way and so has it much more deeply ingrained in her than the rest of them do.
Re: Like a Kid in a Candy Store
Date: 2011-09-17 05:02 am (UTC)But yeah, I love the ambience of a fireplace. I'm glad that you were inspired to download a Mac!
I think, every once in a while, Rose just genuinely has no other word to describe the Doctor but "adorable." And this Valentine's Day disagreement is my favorite type of disagreement, because I think both sides have valid points.
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-14 06:07 am (UTC)The first worry I had was for Rose. She’s not in period clothes, is she? Wouldn’t that have been shocking for the early Bostonians? *grins* It’s a good thing they weren’t captured by the British. What would they think of her virtue?
You’ve made me want to go on walking tours of Boston. I have friends there that I go to visit each year, and we’ve never made it into downtown Boston yet. I’ve seen all of Salem, and we’ve taken day trips to Vermont and to the Mayflower, and to Plimoth Plantation in Plymouth, and other places, but I have yet to see and experience Boston in all of it’s historical glory. Can’t wait until March, when I get to go again.
Something I appreciated about this story was that it took place at dusk... the sun is setting, and people are about to start walking around in lanterns. I think in my first read of this, I somehow missed that, and I love that I’ve picked up on that fact in my re-read. The idea that the Doctor and Rose don’t begin every adventure in the bright, shiny, morning of every day - it makes the travel seem much more constant and full-time, instead of one trip per day, as if they have some sort of chaotic itinerary.
Is there a story behind the Doctor’s rambling about molasses?
I think what impresses me most about stories like this in the series, is the description you use! I sincerely hope you are somewhat historically accurate in your story telling, because I take it as fact. LOL! I love the small bits of detail you create for yourself, and honestly - because it’s all about OUR history, it seems perfectly accurate. How much research do you put into a fic like this one? How much of it is just made-up vs. how much is from personal experience of seeing historical places in Boston?
I love the idea of each pew being decorated by different families.
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-14 06:08 am (UTC)My favorite lines from this story have to be, “Well,” she remarked, reaching into his pants to cup him. “We started at nothing, but we seem to be getting somewhere.” LOVE it - and, “But how did they get those boxes hot in the first place. Naughty colonists. So uncivilized.” LOVE that one too. *grins*
I love that the Doctor wants to lodge a complaint with himself, the highest authority. My God, he’s pompous. And I can’t get enough of him!
Can I just say that I love the fact that the Doctor teaches Rose a history lesson by taking her to a place where she’s not wearing period clothes, and they are about to get caught by the British Army, and he wants her to experience all of this firsthand? So they can obviously either get caught, or miss it entirely by running away as to not get caught? And if they were meant to spy, wouldn’t they need to do so from not being in the center of what’s about to happen? Why wouldn’t the Doctor take her the night before? In this, you’ve captured the Doctor perfectly, in all of his ridiculous thought-processes in appropriate and thought-out travel plans.
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea 3
Date: 2011-09-14 06:08 am (UTC)Personally, I loved the POV-switching. I enjoy reading about what both parties are thinking and feeling. So no complaints from me, ever, on that front.
I just want to try and imagine the Doctor playing poker at all! For him to sit still long enough to get through a hand or two sounds like something remarkable. I can’t decide if I think he’d have a wonderful poker face (not at all compared to Brem, of course), but I suppose he could hold his own. I would love a short fic on family poker night and see what tells each family member has, and then watch Brem still win every hand. LOL. I can’t imagine who all the Doctor would have played poker with. Probably no one from the old west, because if he won, he might be accused a cheater, and he’s anti-weapons and would probably just get shot and then have to regenerate... which might make him try for more respectable gentlemanly games. Perhaps with British socialites or whatnot. I wonder what kinds of things the Doctor would bet, or win, for that matter. I find the Doctor and the game of poker so completely dissimilar from each other that I’m now dying to read a fic that involves the Doctor playing poker.
Do we even know how long it’s been from this story to the next? Because I had envisioned months between them, maybe even a year or so. Brem could have been conceived anywhere. But it would have been rather brilliant for Rose or the Doctor to count back and figure out where he would have been conceived. I honestly can’t decide at what historical event would Brem have been conceived. It could be anything. You may just have to write it and tell us. :) Please.
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea 3
Date: 2011-09-20 03:56 am (UTC)Thanks for the compliment on the POV-switching. I think it's a great tool if you use it well. I hate reading rants about it!
The Doctor is really a terrible poker player. It's one area where Brem has him beat, hands down. The Doctor is really generally terrible at games, his attention span isn't long enough (and Brem is extraordinarily competitive and so excels at games). However, the Doctor *thinks* he's good at games, so he is constantly playing them--and losing--through space and time.
I like to imagine the Doctor playing whist with debauched British aristocrats...
There is no set time between stories, to allow me wiggle room to play if I want, and there's nothing that says this story is only a few weeks before Brem is conceived. But it *could* be, so I figured we could have some fun with the idea. I honestly don't know where or when Brem was conceived. Maybe it was someplace totally mundane. Like Earth. ;-)
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-20 03:51 am (UTC)He *is* pompous. And Rose can't get enough of him, either! ;-)
To the Doctor, going straight to the Old North Church itself was the *only* *way* to see this event. He is, indeed, a lunatic.
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-20 03:10 am (UTC)Ha! Rose is never in period clothes, isn't she? She and the Doctor are so blase about that stuff! But yes, even more scandalous for the colonists and the British!
Oh, you really need to do some walking tours! You can do all of Boston walking it in a day, and it's DELIGHTFUL. Seriously, my favorite place on the entire planet.
You're right, actually, it is tempting to think their adventures always start first thing in the morning, but yeah, this one starts at night.
Old North Church is in Boston's North End, which, in the early twentieth century, was the scene of a great molasses disaster, when a molasses storage facility let go and molasses rolled down the streets and actually suffocated a bunch of people. It's a very strange story, I recommend Googling it.
This fic is pretty accurate, because I had just finished a walking tour of Boston that included the Old North Church when I wrote it, so the description of the church was done from very recent memory, and the account of what happened that night was what the book and museum there told me had happened. I don't often do a lot of research, fics tend to flow out of the things I'm learning about independently.
And yup, each pew belonged to a family who decorated it as they saw fit.
Chaos Theory: Chapter 1
Date: 2011-09-14 06:09 am (UTC)I agree with you - Brem has to be my favorite part of the Chaosverse. I’m not sure how you stumbled about his creation, but I can’t wait to 20 questions you about him.
I love how at the beginning, we just see glimpses of Rose coming and asking the Doctor a question. I guess I never really got that she was terrified and just barely holding it together, because to me, it was more like she was just mulling over things for several days - still trying to make up her mind about if she really thought she was pregnant and trying to learn some things to best prepare herself as she comes to terms with the possibility that she might be pregnant. I didn’t catch on that she was nervous until she actually went and brought back the pregnancy test to the TARDIS. And I loved that. I love the Doctor’s obliviousness to her being pregnant, and his total absorption in the job at hand. I think this is the perfect example that explains what Rose tells the Doctor later in future chapters about her fear of barely being able to hold his attention now - how will she do it when she has a nice, shiny, new baby. Because here, he is working and is only half-listening to her. And I think her bringing up that point later on is completely justified.
I do love that when he sees her he has hopes and disappoints over tea, and can be swayed to perform certain acts with the promise of tea. How very British this Doctor is. LOVE it.
The friends line was amusing - I did laugh. But I would think that he would have thought friendly thoughts about some people. Jack, perhaps? I think the difference between the Doctor and Sherlock stems from the fact that Sherlock doesn’t really enjoy people - isn’t very sociable and isn’t very likable, while the Doctor is an over-people person, who loves people just for being people, and is constantly amazed and in awe by the silly things that they do. Both belittle people, both lack politeness, and don’t mess with either when they are on a rant about something or saving the world. But I would hope that if Sherlock can have someone like Watson, the Doctor’s got to have more than just Rose!
Re: Chaos Theory: Chapter 1
Date: 2011-09-14 06:09 am (UTC)I just have to tell you - from the moment Rose “primly” (which I love) opens the door after peeing on the stick, I LOVED this scene. The Doctor pulling Rose off of the toilet to sitting in his lap... the small details you write about him putting her hand against his to compare the length of their fingers - it’s all just gorgeous. I love that he believes her that she believes she’s pregnant before needing to verify with with the test. He just takes her for her word. Obviously, the test confirms any doubt, but I love that his feelings towards having a baby with her weren’t determined by the results from the test.
I love that even CGBs can be detected by normal pregnancy tests.
His line about, “I can’t believe I had you running from... the other day,” - I love that he connects the dots and realizes that she’s been pregnant for at least a few days previously to this test. I love that he thinks of this with regret. It’s like he knows in one split second the depths of how incredible and special and wonderful this is. I do appreciate that it’s all about Rose at the moment. Rose’s well-being. I know that it’s because she’s pregnant with his baby that he’s wanting to take care of her, but I love that at these first few precious moments, it’s all about him wanting to take care of her. I think when you get pregnant, everything very quickly becomes about the baby. Your Doctor is only concerned with the baby’s health. Everything you eat or drink or do or think becomes about the baby. And I love that the Doctor wants Rose to stay in bed and he wants to take care of her - to simply do that. Care for her. And that is very romantic, too.
For someone as early oblivious as him, and she’s just as guilty because she’s not very forthcoming at all when she’s nervous about something, he really does make up for it in the end. I love this chapter. It has to be one of my top 5 in the entire series.
Re: Chaos Theory: Chapter 1
Date: 2011-09-21 02:38 am (UTC)And I think I would understand a Doctor who would get angry over Rose being pregnant. Angry at who? Fate? Because it wouldn't be Rose's fault more than it was his fault, if it was something he really didn't want. And that would make him a jerk.
I actually purposely added all those little details, because it felt like it was going too quickly for me, and I wanted there to be a sense of the enormity of the occasion, you know?
And I like what you say about the fact that the Doctor believes her before he sees the pregnancy test results. That's a nice point, and one I'm not sure even I noticed before!
Rose does eventually start to feel like an incubator, but I liked the Doctor not making her feel that way right away. :-)
Re: Chaos Theory: Chapter 1
Date: 2011-09-20 04:01 am (UTC)I don't know how I stumbled onto Brem, either. I am constantly amazed that he showed up in this 'verse and took control of it as much as he did.
Yeah, I think Rose thinks the Doctor is the least observant being ever, and that he's not observant because he doesn't love her enough. The truth is, the Doctor isn't observant because he's not observant. ;-)
The Doctor later is known to say that all good civilizations have tea. You can see that here.
The Doctor definitely feels friendly toward people, but he doesn't seem able--outside of the Chaosverse--to truly maintain friendships. He doesn't seem to be able to get the hang of it. Later, when Rose is lonely, the Doctor's kind of struck by the idea that she needs these ongoing friendships. Without her, I think the Doctor would just continue to flit from companion to companion, moving onto the next like closing books, without any of the overlapping and becoming continuing things for him.
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-16 08:46 am (UTC)What historical event do you think that might have been?
Wow - I never gave that much thought and I haven't a clue, but now I think this fic must be written. ;)
Re: One If By Land, Two If By Sea
Date: 2011-09-23 02:38 am (UTC)