The Chaosverse Book Club: Week Three
Sep. 4th, 2011 02:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
earlgreytea68Like a Kid in a Candy Store
What I like about this fic, especially in light of the anniversary fic I just posted, is that Rose isn't exactly upset that the Doctor forgot Valentine's Day: She's upset because he remembered Valentine's Day and refused to acknowledge it. Rose, even at this early point in the relationship, has clearly come to terms with the fact that the Doctor is rubbish at remembering the little human days of meaning. She's unhappy that he would belittle the little human days of meaning, though. Which I think is a fair point. Rose is a different species than he is, and maybe her penchant for holidays is a very human way to mark the turning of the years, but she wants the Doctor to respect that as part of her heritage.
Of course, I think the Doctor makes an excellent point about Valentine's Day. It's really the same point he makes about anniversaries in "Pre-Coital Chips": He loves her every single day. Why should any day in particular be the day when he emphasizes that? The Doctor, I think, seldom takes his life for granted in the way that humans can, which could be part of why humans need special days like that to force them to take a breath and acknowledge their amazing luck. That and the fact that I genuinely think that, at the end of your life, your memories start to become a press of this Christmas and that Thanksgiving, with all the in-between days blending together for the most part. The Doctor doesn't suffer from that problem, that need to put signposts in his past to remember it. He just doesn't see the point, I don't think.
Well. That got a bit philosophical in a way I didn't intend.
Also, I think it's noteworthy in this fic that Rose knows they're doing more than just shagging, because I think that was a realization hard-won by the argument in "Everywhere." But she's not clear enough to know exactly what they are (honestly, I think it shows how young she still is in the Chaosverse that she's still trying to characterize it in such human terms).
Now, this fic is also one of those places where you would think I'm very clever and have been setting things up FOREVER. I haven't been. When Fortuna's story takes place in Paris, and this fic slots so nicely into the conversation Rose and the Doctor have with Jack that triggers his recollection of the name "Valentin," yeah, that was completely unplanned, it just happened. I am very, very lucky. (I also like the minor bit of foreshadowing in this fic, when the Doctor asks if Rose trusts him not to let her fall. I don't think I planned that, either.)
Questions for Discussion:
I cannot believe that, in all these years, I’ve never been in a proper Earth candy store! Frankly, I can't believe it, either. Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
I want all of you to know that![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
arctacuda was awesome enough to get me a 1937 book for New Orleans. Aren't you all looking forward to whatever smut comes out of those excursions? Anyway, the story the Doctor tells Rose here is, roughly speaking, the story I was told at the Old North Church. Only, you know, in more Doctor-ish language (I hope).
There's a lot of POV-switching in this fic, from Rose to the Doctor and back again, etc. I think it works. I know this sort of narration seems to be disfavored these days, and I've fallen into the habit of picking one POV and sticking with it, but I always thought romantic stories sometimes benefitted by a third-person omniscient narrator who was able to tell you what everyone was thinking, all in one scene. Because sometimes you want the reader to know more than the character, and you want the reader to know more right then, not in a later scene. I don't know, I don't think there's necessarily a rule about POV in fiction, I think the trick is just to be cognizant of where your POV is and what you're doing with it. <--my two cents
Questions for Discussion:
The Doctor references playing poker with Longfellow. Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
What's strange is that I thought, re-reading this chapter, I would be siezed with such nostalgia. But, truthfully, I had no idea when I started writing this fic what I was going to end up with. So, while I'm fond of this chapter and have affection toward it, there are other bits of my fic that I love far more. This feels weirdly rusty to me, like I hadn't quite established the rhythm of the relationship I was building. It gets there, of course, over the course of the fic, but this chaper feels like the first chapter of a fic to me--and yet, it's several fics into the story already. So, there's a bit of a disconnect to me there, if that makes any sense. And I think I hit my stride later in the story.
However, that is not to say that I don't love this chapter, because I very much do. But we still haven't met Brem. And I have to admit that, of everything I've written in the Chaosverse, the fact that it introduced me to Brem is my favorite thing about it.
“Friends with any? Since when did he have friends?" Ha! This line is so Sherlockian! Poor Doctor, part of the point of Chaosverse was that, by the end of it, he would stop thinking these lonely thoughts about himself. And he totally has, so I did that right. :-)
The conversation about how Rose changes the Doctor's mind about visiting Jackie by promising him a cup of tea now, in the wake of "Things Continue to Progress," reads entirely euphemistically to me. Which was not how I intended it. But I kind of like that reading of it.
So, I think it's funny that the Doctor has no idea that Rose suspects she's pregnant, but, in fairness to the Doctor, Rose really, by this point in their relationship, should have just been blunt with him. I guess I'll give her a pass because I think that Rose is absolutely terrified in this chapter and barely holding things together (although I don't think it comes to the surface until she breaks down with her mum in a later chapter). And at least she acknowledges her mistake.
Questions for Discussion:
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
Next Week: Chapters 2, 3, and 4 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space
What I like about this fic, especially in light of the anniversary fic I just posted, is that Rose isn't exactly upset that the Doctor forgot Valentine's Day: She's upset because he remembered Valentine's Day and refused to acknowledge it. Rose, even at this early point in the relationship, has clearly come to terms with the fact that the Doctor is rubbish at remembering the little human days of meaning. She's unhappy that he would belittle the little human days of meaning, though. Which I think is a fair point. Rose is a different species than he is, and maybe her penchant for holidays is a very human way to mark the turning of the years, but she wants the Doctor to respect that as part of her heritage.
Of course, I think the Doctor makes an excellent point about Valentine's Day. It's really the same point he makes about anniversaries in "Pre-Coital Chips": He loves her every single day. Why should any day in particular be the day when he emphasizes that? The Doctor, I think, seldom takes his life for granted in the way that humans can, which could be part of why humans need special days like that to force them to take a breath and acknowledge their amazing luck. That and the fact that I genuinely think that, at the end of your life, your memories start to become a press of this Christmas and that Thanksgiving, with all the in-between days blending together for the most part. The Doctor doesn't suffer from that problem, that need to put signposts in his past to remember it. He just doesn't see the point, I don't think.
Well. That got a bit philosophical in a way I didn't intend.
Also, I think it's noteworthy in this fic that Rose knows they're doing more than just shagging, because I think that was a realization hard-won by the argument in "Everywhere." But she's not clear enough to know exactly what they are (honestly, I think it shows how young she still is in the Chaosverse that she's still trying to characterize it in such human terms).
Now, this fic is also one of those places where you would think I'm very clever and have been setting things up FOREVER. I haven't been. When Fortuna's story takes place in Paris, and this fic slots so nicely into the conversation Rose and the Doctor have with Jack that triggers his recollection of the name "Valentin," yeah, that was completely unplanned, it just happened. I am very, very lucky. (I also like the minor bit of foreshadowing in this fic, when the Doctor asks if Rose trusts him not to let her fall. I don't think I planned that, either.)
Questions for Discussion:
I cannot believe that, in all these years, I’ve never been in a proper Earth candy store! Frankly, I can't believe it, either. Is there anything, in 'verse or in canon, that the Doctor seems perplexed or fascinated by, that you've thought to yourself, "Come on, you're 900 (or a thousand) years old, surely you've done this before!"?
I have always wanted a fireplace in my bedroom, so I give Rose and the Doctor a fireplace in their bedroom. Other than that, I don't describe their bedroom much. What do you think it looks like?
One If By Land, Two If By Sea
I want all of you to know that
arctacuda was awesome enough to get me a 1937 book for New Orleans. Aren't you all looking forward to whatever smut comes out of those excursions? Anyway, the story the Doctor tells Rose here is, roughly speaking, the story I was told at the Old North Church. Only, you know, in more Doctor-ish language (I hope). There's a lot of POV-switching in this fic, from Rose to the Doctor and back again, etc. I think it works. I know this sort of narration seems to be disfavored these days, and I've fallen into the habit of picking one POV and sticking with it, but I always thought romantic stories sometimes benefitted by a third-person omniscient narrator who was able to tell you what everyone was thinking, all in one scene. Because sometimes you want the reader to know more than the character, and you want the reader to know more right then, not in a later scene. I don't know, I don't think there's necessarily a rule about POV in fiction, I think the trick is just to be cognizant of where your POV is and what you're doing with it. <--my two cents
Questions for Discussion:
The Doctor references playing poker with Longfellow. Who do you like to imagine the Doctor's played poker with over the course of his travels?
The fact that this fic is positioned directly in front of Rose's announcement that she's pregnant means that we can imagine that Brem was conceived at whatever historical event the Doctor decided to get Rose back at. What historical event do you think that might have been?
Chapter One of "Chaos Theory"
What's strange is that I thought, re-reading this chapter, I would be siezed with such nostalgia. But, truthfully, I had no idea when I started writing this fic what I was going to end up with. So, while I'm fond of this chapter and have affection toward it, there are other bits of my fic that I love far more. This feels weirdly rusty to me, like I hadn't quite established the rhythm of the relationship I was building. It gets there, of course, over the course of the fic, but this chaper feels like the first chapter of a fic to me--and yet, it's several fics into the story already. So, there's a bit of a disconnect to me there, if that makes any sense. And I think I hit my stride later in the story.
However, that is not to say that I don't love this chapter, because I very much do. But we still haven't met Brem. And I have to admit that, of everything I've written in the Chaosverse, the fact that it introduced me to Brem is my favorite thing about it.
“Friends with any? Since when did he have friends?" Ha! This line is so Sherlockian! Poor Doctor, part of the point of Chaosverse was that, by the end of it, he would stop thinking these lonely thoughts about himself. And he totally has, so I did that right. :-)
The conversation about how Rose changes the Doctor's mind about visiting Jackie by promising him a cup of tea now, in the wake of "Things Continue to Progress," reads entirely euphemistically to me. Which was not how I intended it. But I kind of like that reading of it.
So, I think it's funny that the Doctor has no idea that Rose suspects she's pregnant, but, in fairness to the Doctor, Rose really, by this point in their relationship, should have just been blunt with him. I guess I'll give her a pass because I think that Rose is absolutely terrified in this chapter and barely holding things together (although I don't think it comes to the surface until she breaks down with her mum in a later chapter). And at least she acknowledges her mistake.
Questions for Discussion:
I think the Doctor comes around to the idea of the pregnancy very quickly. What do you think? Is that portion of this particular chapter rushed? Or is it justifiable in light of the fact that the Doctor's waiting to do his panicking later? I really can't decide.
Next Week: Chapters 2, 3, and 4 of Chaos Theory in Vortex Orbits in Relative Dimensions in Time and Space
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no subject
Date: 2011-09-11 07:36 pm (UTC)As
I don't think I have any thoughts regarding the discussion questions, but I do love the idea of the Doctor travelling through space and time and holding petty grudges. It makes me giggle. He certainly doesn't like to be shown up at anything.
I think the POV switches work perfectly - I definitely didn't mean it as a criticism when I brought it up last time around - it's just not something I'm used to seeing, at least in this corner of fanfic, and I thought it was interesting. You're right - there's certainly a way to do it so it works. If it's done poorly, it can be very jarring, but you absolutely do it in a way that's not, and in a way that makes the story richer.
I love Rose describing the way the Doctor teases her, and I actually find the image of this kind of hot, even though it occurs far before the smut. I just love that he touches her instead of just pointing:
The Doctor shifted Rose slightly, so that she was looking out over a much flatter area of the city, from which a single steeple emerged, overshadowing the small buildings around it.
Last of all, it seems that there's always one line of a fic that sticks with me, and the one from this story is:
“It doesn’t really…” He watched her hand tug down his zipper. “It doesn’t really seem like nothing.”
HEE. ♥♥♥
no subject
Date: 2011-09-14 03:04 am (UTC)Hahahahaha! Poor Doctor, you just *know* he sulks through time and space.
I didn't think you meant it as a criticism, but it's true that I seldom see it done anymore. I wonder if it's not fashionable anymore or something?
Awww, yeah, they love to be touching each other, these two.
And I love that that's your favorite line!